Templot Club Archive 2007-2020                             

topic: 3839new Templot Club forum
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posted: 22 Dec 2020 20:29

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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As I mentioned:

 topic 3837

there are changes afoot for this Templot Club forum.

I have spent a couple of days trying to get this very old forum software and database copied over to the new server, and as expected it is a minefield of error messages. I'm reasonably confident that I could in theory work through them all and get it working -- eventually.

But in practice it is going to be a constant pain to keep it going, and after some thought I have decided that I don't want to. It will be a shame to see it go, it has served us well for over 13 years. But it is time to move on, and change to something more modern which will be easier to maintain and keep up-to-date. And easier for someone else to take over as Admin if the need arises.

It would have been a difficult decision to decide which of the available forum softwares to adopt. But in this case the decision made itself -- I had an unused licence for XenForo left over from a previous abandoned project.

So I have installed it as the new Templot Club forum. There is nothing there yet, this is just the initial basic empty install:

 http://85a.uk/templot/club

I now have to construct a forum structure and set up all the features and functions we need. That's going to take me several days or even weeks -- if you return to the above link you will be able to see how I'm getting on. :)

It will be necessary for members to re-register on there when the time comes, but I will try to make it as painless as possible.

As for the existing content here, I have yet to decide how best to preserve it. I'm minded to create a static searchable archive, rather than try to import it all into the new live database. As of now we have 30,420 posted messages in 3,608 topics. A lot of it is out-of-date, or is transient content which doesn't need to be preserved. But sorting through it to decide what is worth keeping and what isn't would be a massive task.

However, to create a sense of continuity, as soon as some members are able to register I will manually seed the new forum with some of their recent posts and topic discussions.

In the meantime, please continue to use this old forum as before.

Martin.

posted: 22 Dec 2020 23:48

from:

Nigel Brown
 
 

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Think that's sensible. To me 99% of the forum (and indeed any forum I use) which is of interest is that which is currently active.

Best of luck!

Nigel

posted: 23 Dec 2020 16:46

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Martin Wynne wrote:

I now have to construct a forum structure and set up all the features and functions we need. That's going to take me several days or even weeks

Well yes, it would take me that long to get everything set up to look and feel just like the present Templot Club forum. Which was my original intention.

But XenForo is a combine harvester to the UltraBB tea trolley. Blundering about in the code to chop bits out and bolt bits on is not for the faint-hearted. After struggling to find my way around I think I shall leave most of it as it is for now, and come back to iron out any snags later.

Which means if you would like to Register as a member on there and have a play, please do:

 http://85a.uk/templot/club/index.php?whats-new/

Click the Register link near top right to get started. At present I have set it for manual approval of registrations, so that we don't get any spammers or scammers trying to join. So it may take a while for your registration to become active -- please reply here to give me a nudge if I seem to be taking too long to approve you.

Post anything you like on there, upload some images, attach a box file, or whatever you like. This is just for testing and it can all be deleted later. This old Templot Club is still the place for any proper posts.

Try it on your mobile, tablet, TV screen or whatever, too.

I'm not yet convinced that I have made the right choice with XenForo, perhaps we should stick with bog-standard traditional phpBB (as used for the Scalefour Society forum, for example).

cheers,

Martin.

posted: 23 Dec 2020 17:01

from:

Paul Boyd
 
Loughborough - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin
I’ve just registered, let’s see how it goes!

Hopefully the new forum won’t delete the first line feed!

Cheers,
Paul

posted: 23 Dec 2020 17:37

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Paul Boyd wrote:
Hi Martin
I’ve just registered, let’s see how it goes!

Hopefully the new forum won’t delete the first line feed!

Cheers,
Paul
Thanks Paul,

Just approved first 3 members. Thanks for joining. :)

Sorry about the delay -- i assumed I would get an email to notify me you were waiting, but I didn't. So that's the very first bug to sort out.

p.s. on this old Templot Club, the line feeds work fine if you hold down the Shift key with every Enter/Return/Newline. Don't ask. :?

Martin.

posted: 24 Dec 2020 08:12

from:

Phil O
 
Plymouth - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin,

I signed up at around 8.30 last evening and have just tried logging on and so far no joy.

Thanks

Phil.

posted: 24 Dec 2020 10:00

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Phil O wrote:
I signed up at around 8.30 last evening and have just tried logging on and so far no joy.
Hi Phil,

Sorry about that. Can you remember what messages came up?

I can't find any record of you joining. Here is the current membership list:

2_240456_410000000.png2_240456_410000000.png

Please have another go, and let me know what you see.

 http://85a.uk/templot/club/index.php?register/

cheers,

Martin.

posted: 24 Dec 2020 10:18

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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p.s. anyone else not able to join?

All members listed should have received an email to say your membership has been approved.

Anyone not?

Can you double check that your email address has been entered correctly?

2_240515_240000000.png2_240515_240000000.png

Entering a wrong email address is the commonest mistake on all web sites. It's easy to make a mistake and not notice.

Martin.

posted: 24 Dec 2020 12:57

from:

Phil O
 
Plymouth - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin,

This is my registration form, before I press the register button.38_240753_340000000.png38_240753_340000000.png

After I press the register button.

Please see my next post.




Attachment: attach_3191_3839_Templot_login_2.png     1 time)

posted: 24 Dec 2020 13:01

from:

Phil O
 
Plymouth - United Kingdom

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To continue.

This is my screen after pressing the register button.

38_240759_550000000.png38_240759_550000000.png



I'm using a Lenovo laptop with Win10, I get the same result on my Samsung Tab 2 with Android. My browser is Firefox.

Thanks

Phil.

Last edited on 24 Dec 2020 13:06 by Phil O
posted: 24 Dec 2020 13:45

from:

Paul Boyd
 
Loughborough - United Kingdom

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Martin Wynne wrote

Sorry about the delay -- i assumed I would get an email to notify me you were waiting, but I didn't. So that's the very first bug to sort out.

p.s. on this old Templot Club, the line feeds work fine if you hold down the Shift key with every Enter/Return/Newline. Don't ask. :?

Martin.
Delay? Was there a delay? 😀
It’s only the first line feed that goes astray, all others are ok.  I’ll try the shift though next time!

Cheers,
Paul

posted: 24 Dec 2020 13:53

from:

Paul Boyd
 
Loughborough - United Kingdom

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I like the look of the new forum. The ability to “like” a post is good too, as an acknowledgement that someone has at least seen it and thought it worthy of acknowledgment, even if not a reply.

Not so sure about the league tables of most posts, most likes etc though! It feels a little like aiming for top of the class!

Incidentally, the concept of Shift-Enter doesn’t exist on an iPad, I’ve realised. 😢

Cheers,
Paul

posted: 24 Dec 2020 14:00

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Phil O wrote:
This is my screen after pressing the register button.

Hi Phil,

I'm sorry you are having trouble.

I don't know why it is mixing up your email with your user name. I've been looking on the site for any record of your registering, but there is nothing I can find. It doesn't help of course that I'm new to it, and it is vastly more complex than this site. On the other hand there are some functions on here which I use regularly which don't seem to be available on XenForo. The biggest annoyance is that I don't get an email when someone joins, and needs approval. So I have to keep going on there to check.

Would you like me to try to register you manually, and send your password by email?

cheers,

Martin.

posted: 24 Dec 2020 14:13

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Paul Boyd wrote:
I like the look of the new forum. The ability to “like” a post is good too, as an acknowledgement that someone has at least seen it and thought it worthy of acknowledgment, even if not a reply.
Hi Paul,

Yes, that is one of the main things lacking on this old forum, although the well known trick of posting

+1

in reply can be used.

I've looked at adding it here a couple of times, but it's a lot of work, needing changes in the database tables and in almost every one of the PHP files.


There are other "reactions" available other than a simple "like", but the one I would want to add is missing: "thank you". No doubt I can work out how to add it in due course.

Not so sure about the league tables of most posts, most likes etc though! It feels a little like aiming for top of the class!
I've installed a bog-standard default version of the software. I expect to be removing a lot of the sillier stuff in due course. It told me that I've been awarded a "trophy" for making my first post!

Incidentally, the concept of Shift-Enter doesn’t exist on an iPad, I’ve realised. 😢
So how do you start a new line without starting a new paragraph?

cheers,

Martin.

posted: 24 Dec 2020 15:58

from:

Jim Guthrie
 
United Kingdom

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Registered this morning and got the email back - no problems.

I do like the ZenForo software having used it on Western Thunder for many years. I do like the "Recent Messages" on the WT setup which lets you review all the recent messages - great for finding a recent message which you remember seeing, but cant remember where in the forum it is. :)

Jim.
Last edited on 24 Dec 2020 15:59 by Jim Guthrie
posted: 24 Dec 2020 16:12

from:

Paul Boyd
 
Loughborough - United Kingdom

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Martin Wynne wrote:

Incidentally, the concept of Shift-Enter doesn’t exist on an iPad, I’ve realised. 😢
So how do you start a new line without starting a new paragraph?
Having just had a play (on the iPad), it seems you can’t!  If you just hit enter once, the composing window drops a line, but the preview window ignores that so the two lines become one.

I hardly ever use the iPad for this sort of thing though because two-finger typing on a tiny “keyboard” is a pain - there isn’t room to use all my fingers!

Cheers,
Paul

posted: 25 Dec 2020 19:13

from:

Phil O
 
Plymouth - United Kingdom

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Martin Wynne wrote:
Phil O wrote:
This is my screen after pressing the register button.

Hi Phil,

I'm sorry you are having trouble.

I don't know why it is mixing up your email with your user name. I've been looking on the site for any record of your registering, but there is nothing I can find. It doesn't help of course that I'm new to it, and it is vastly more complex than this site. On the other hand there are some functions on here which I use regularly which don't seem to be available on XenForo. The biggest annoyance is that I don't get an email when someone joins, and needs approval. So I have to keep going on there to check.

Would you like me to try to register you manually, and send your password by email?

cheers,

Martin.

Merry Christmas Martin,

Yes please, if you would be so kind.

Thanks

Phil.



posted: 25 Dec 2020 20:51

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Hi Phil,

I have sent you an email. Let me know if you don't get it.

cheers,

Martin.

posted: 26 Dec 2020 14:28

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Decision time. :)

27 members have now registered on the new Templot Club forum.

If you have not yet seen it or registered on there, find it at:

 http://85a.uk/templot/club

I think I have done as much prior configuration as I usefully can. Any remaining niggles would be easier to deal with as they arise, once it is up and running.

So what is the general feeling? Is the new Templot Club forum a fit replacement for this one?

If it is, how long should we wait before swapping over? I can't begin the task of creating an archive from this old forum until it is switched off from further use.

If it isn't, what further changes are needed, or alternatives proposed?

p.s. are you viewing it on a full screen or a mobile device? Currently the page layout changes to mobile when the screen width is below 1000 pixels. I can change that if necessary. The mobile version can be seen on a full screen by reducing the window width of your browser.

There is a further change below 480 pixels, but I don't believe anyone would try to view it on such a screen?

cheers,

Martin.

posted: 26 Dec 2020 15:11

from:

Paul Boyd
 
Loughborough - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin
Go for it!  The new forum does look good, and moving into a new year is as good a time to change as any.  There will always be people who don’t like change though, but they’ll get used to it.  

Is it feasible to perhaps do a gradual changeover, with no new topics permitted on the old forum, but existing topics able to continue for a while, or does it have to be a mass move across in one hit?

Cheers,
Paul

posted: 26 Dec 2020 15:14

from:

Paul Boyd
 
Loughborough - United Kingdom

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...although I notice there are new posts in the new forum, but I’ve not had email notifications.  I’m pretty sure the right boxes are ticked in my preferences!

posted: 26 Dec 2020 16:46

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Paul Boyd wrote:
...although I notice there are new posts in the new forum, but I’ve not had email notifications.  I’m pretty sure the right boxes are ticked in my preferences!
Hi Paul,

Email is one of the niggles.

When I originally chose the UltraBB web forum software it was mainly for the email capabilities to replace the previous Yahoo email group. It was the only one I could find at that time which made it easy to receive full email notifications for all activity on the entire board.

But most web forums don't work that way, and if they do, lots of members complain about an avalanche of email which they don't want.

The new XF forum is like most boards. The default arrangement is that you receive one notification if there are replies to a topic which you created or posted in, and only one, until you visit the board and read them. After which you receive one more notification if there are any further replies, and so on. And by default such a notification is simply an indication that a reply exists, it doesn't contain the text of the reply.

edit: I have now modified the XF code so that you receive an email for every fresh post in a "watched" topic or forum section, regardless of whether you visit the web site in between.

A "notification" is simply a red alert bell icon at the top of the page, not an email. If you also want an email, you have to say so. 

If you want email for any other content or board activity you have to set it up manually yourself. Like this:

First go to a forum section (not any of its topics (threads) ) by clicking Forums:

2_261116_320000000.png2_261116_320000000.png  

and click the Watch button. A popup appears:

2_261117_290000000.png2_261117_290000000.png

To replicate the previous Templot Club arrangement you then need to tick those boxes, which are not the defaults.

And then repeat all that for every other forum section from which you want to receive emails.

Currently there are 15 forum sections, although you probably don't want to "watch" the Try stuff here section.

It's all a major pain. I have asked on the XF support forum for an easier method, and there isn't one. The universal response is "why would anyone want that, they would get a deluge of email?". Which may be true on a typical gaming board with several thousand members and hundreds of posts every day. But Templot Club isn't one of those.

You can similarly Watch a single topic (thread) if you wish, rather than an entire forum section.

Hopefully I can find a method or write a script to make it easier to set it up in one go, but I'm a bit new to it to start diving into the database at this stage. It's huge.

In addition to all that, you need to double-check that these options are set in your account Preferences:

2_261134_520000000.png2_261134_520000000.png

They should be on by default when you register, but you may have turned them off.

I think "interact with" means "reply to", and/or click Like on something.

cheers,

Martin.

posted: 26 Dec 2020 17:04

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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p.s.

Once you have started watching a forum section, you can manage the settings for it at any time:

2_261202_520000000.png2_261202_520000000.png


posted: 26 Dec 2020 17:18

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Another niggle for me is the use of the term "thread" instead of "topic", but that is so deeply embedded in the software that changing it would be a major task. I think the only way would be to install a different language instead of English, with just that one word changed (and maybe a few others).

But that's for another day (and I might be the only one who finds it so irritating).

Martin.

posted: 26 Dec 2020 18:10

from:

Paul Boyd
 
Loughborough - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin
I’ll digest that properly once I’m back home in front of a proper screen, but it would be a great shame if there wasn’t a way to have individual emails for each post.  As you say, with Templot it’s hardly a deluge!  I don’t know about others, but I find it far easier to simply read the posts via email, then come to the forum if there’s something I’m interested in.  I’ve found that with forums that effectively only exist on a website, I simply don’t visit them because I don’t want to spend hours ploughing through each topic (not “thread”!) in turn in case there’s something I’m interested in.  The MERG forum, for instance, works in the way you describe and there are probably loads of interesting posts on there, but I simply don’t know about them. Or I didn’t immediately visit the website so no longer get notifications at all.  I tend to use those forums simply as a tool for searching for things.

Hold that “Go for it!” 😀😀. If we really are unable to get individual emails (and I hope there is a way around it) that’s a change that isn’t a case of getting used to, but probably a change away from the Templot Club as a general discussion forum 😥. How does the “New Posts” section on the new forum work? I’d like it to work by me selecting which posts I’ve seen, and leaving others there until I get around to them, not have the forum hide them between visits.  That would work if email doesn’t, and hopefully would be much the same as swiping right on an email to mark it as read. Other forums only seem to show new posts since my last visit.

I suppose the bottom line of what I’m getting at is that I’d like to see each and every post, and decide for myself whether or not it’s something I want to follow up or hide, and not have the forum software decide for me simply because I didn’t look at a particular post on a particular visit. I don’t think I really mind whether that functionality is email or forum, so long as it’s there!

Anyway, I’ll have another play tomorrow with various settings and see what happens!

Cheers,
Paul


Last edited on 26 Dec 2020 18:13 by Paul Boyd
posted: 26 Dec 2020 19:18

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Hi Paul,

You can definitely get an email for every post, except perhaps your own posts.

if not, this software would have gone in the bin. :)

edit: Damn. It seems not. Everything on hold.

But first you have to go through the laborious process of "Watching" each and every forum section, and be sure to select the option to watch for "New messages" on each one, and say that you want it as email:

2_261117_290000000.png2_261117_290000000.png

I'm sorry I can't make it easier to set up. I have tried hard to find a way.

I have just been through and "watched" every one of the 14 forum sections. It took me 3 minutes.

An alternative would be for me to create a mailing list external to the forum, and have all emails relayed through that for those who want them. I'm looking at the possibility.

cheers,

Martin.

posted: 26 Dec 2020 19:29

from:

Dave Summers
 
Urchfont, Devizes - United Kingdom

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Chacun son goût. Personally, I don’t like the barrage of emails as it works at the moment, many of which relate to topics of absolutely no interest to me. A thread-based XF forum is used by the outstanding Western Thunder and also by the Gauge O Guild and no doubt others. Their format of allowing a click on ‘What’s New?’ to focus on the latest posts with the option of ‘Mark Forums Read’ to reset the emboldened thread titles.
The ‘rewards’ can be turned off so I look forward to the improved presentation in the very near future.
Dave

posted: 26 Dec 2020 19:54

from:

Rob Manchester
 
Manchester - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin,
I would like an email for each new post to a thread topic. Maybe I am stuck in my ways but it just seems easier that way. As you say it doesn't take long to go through and watch each section ( as you have explained ).

Quite often an email comes from the old forum which doesn't need a visit to the website as it may be just somebody posting ' Yes, thanks for the information. I will try that' or similar. MERG sends me a daily email detailing all topics that have been active in the past 24 hours which is OK I suppose but I think an email for each post ( when it is posted ) is better.

My first few emails from the new forum went into the Spam folder but it is fine once you mark them as Not Spam.

Rob


posted: 26 Dec 2020 20:00

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Hi Paul, Rob,

I've been doing some checking, and unfortunately I'm getting only one email between visits to the forum.

That's just NO GOOD and I wish I had checked more thoroughly before I began. :(

Please hold fire everyone until I have investigated further.

Boiled egg or mince pie while I calm down?

cheers,

Martin.

posted: 26 Dec 2020 22:12

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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I have been able to make some changes in the XF code which seems to have fixed the problem.

Notification emails should now be sent for all posts (if you have opted to watch a thread or forum) regardless of whether you have visited the web site or read the topic since the last one.

It needs a bit more testing, but we can continue as we were. :)

cheers,

Martin.

posted: 27 Dec 2020 15:17

from:

stuart1600
 
United Kingdom

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Martin,
I've only had a very brief look at the new forum, but it looks OK to me; I view via a good old-fashioned (now) PC and 27" screen.  The other two "railway" forums that I frequent also use Xenforo, so it felt familiar anyway!
Once I'd gone to the Preferences page and unticked just about everything, the unwanted emails stopped; conversations (aka PMs) and admin notice should still be OK, which is how I like it.
Whatever process/timescale you adopt for the switch-over will be fine with me I should think.
Enjoy the mince pies/boiled egg...

Kind regards,
Stuart

Last edited on 27 Dec 2020 15:18 by stuart1600
posted: 27 Dec 2020 20:54

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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stuart1600 wrote:
Whatever process/timescale you adopt for the switch-over will be fine with me I should think.

Hi Stuart,

Hang on to your hat! :)

Martin.

posted: 27 Dec 2020 21:39

from:

Rob Manchester
 
Manchester - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin,
Sorry if I am being a bit "thick" but on the new forum how do I see which forum sections I have already selected to be watched ( and therefore want an email for new messages that are posted in that section)?

Rob


posted: 27 Dec 2020 22:19

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Hi Rob,

You can see a list of your watched forums:


2_271715_240000000.png2_271715_240000000.png


And in the topic lists, anything you are watching has a bell icon:

2_271716_150000000.png2_271716_150000000.png

It doesn't matter if you watch a topic and the forum it is in, you get only one email for each reply. So you can safely choose to watch the topic every time you post.

cheers,

Martin.

posted: 27 Dec 2020 23:40

from:

Rob Manchester
 
Manchester - United Kingdom

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Thanks Martin,

That was what I thought but I was sure I had watched some forums and they didn't appear in the list - probably me being a wally :)

As long as there isn't an issue with changing user ID's on the new forum I will stick with the one I picked - it kind of suits me as all I seem to do is try something out and then move on to something different ( as you may have noticed - besides once COVID is but a memory a house move is on the cards and the Manchester reference would have been odd. It was going to be North Wales but now COVID has highlighted some negative points over there not sure it is the right choice - a bungling bunch of politicians and a lack of health resources for a start ( mind you, is England any better? )

Good luck tonight, no early night for you I suspect :(

Rob






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