Templot Club Archive 2007-2020
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posted: 2 Apr 2008 14:52 from: Hayfield
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I have just got templot and played with it last night creating a couple of templates, via tutorials and free hand. I have hit one problem and cannot find the answer. First question why do the point timbers follow the curved stock rail and not the straight stock rail, what am I doing wrong and please how do I change it. (thanks to who put in timbering styles I have found the button for square timbering) Secondly I am used to points being described in inch radius, I understand that I will now work in crossing angles, but is there a simple chart or a rule of thunb which tells me what the equivalent crossing angles are to 36", 48" and 60" radius points please, as this will give me a good reference point. (I have found F5 which alters length and radius is shown in box). I should play more and ask less questions Sorry if I am in the wrong section. John |
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| Last edited on 2 Apr 2008 17:14 by Hayfield |
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posted: 2 Apr 2008 16:43 from: Martin Wynne
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Hayfield wrote: I have just got Templot and played with it last night creating a couple of templates, via tutorials and free hand. I have hit one problem and cannot find the answer.Hi John, Welcome to Templot Club. You are not doing anything wrong. Templot has several timbering styles and you can choose which one you prefer, or the one which matches your prototype. The style you have there is called equalized incremental. The style you are looking for is called square-on. You can change between them by going to the timbering menu. In version 074b it's at geometry > timbering > menu options, like this: timbering_style_074b.png  (In later versions of Templot timbering is under the real menu.) (If you are not modelling 00 gauge, notice also in that menu that 9ft long sleepers is the option set at startup. If you are modelling modern track you should change it to 8ft-6in sleepers. But if you leave it at 9ft, Templot will draw some dotted lines on the sleepers where the 8ft-6in ends would be, so it doesn't matter too much, provided you remember to trim the sleepers to the dotted lines when you build it.  If you are modelling 00 gauge, Templot automatically changes the timbers to 8ft long for you, to match the usual recommendations for 00.) Timbering style is a frequently asked question, because there is no clear answer. Generally speaking, equalized was the norm in the pre-grouping period (before the 1920s), and square-on is the standard now. Between then and now you get both. The change was gradual and varied in pace according to local practice. For much of the post-grouping steam era it would be common to see square-on used for main running lines, with older equalized timbered turnouts predominating in yards, sidings and branch lines. (Except on the GWR, where there is evidence of the exact opposite! Early turnout drawings show a square-on style, but when the flexible switches were introduced in 1930, the drawings show equalized. In many cases it seems simply that the preference of the local relaying inspector was the deciding issue.) There are several factors at work here. The main reasons for using a square-on timbering style are: 1. The main road is "stronger" in the sense that it is held to gauge with timbers at right-angles to the rails. This is always desirable for robust track. If timbers are skewed to the rails there is a much greater risk of gauge-spread, especially on curves. So if the main road of a turnout is a running line (and especially if it is on a curve), and the turnout road is a low-speed crossover or branch line, it makes sense to use the square-on arrangement to concentrate strength in the more heavily used road. On the other hand, if both roads are running lines of similar importance, you would want to have some strength in both roads and an equalized timbering arrangement is then the best option. 2. Where pointwork is prefabricated in the works, dismantled and delivered to site as a kit of parts, with the rail-fixings already attached to the timbers, it is much easier to set out the timbers at the correct specified spacings if the timbers are all parallel to one another and square to the main rails. 3. For modern mechanised maintenance and tamping equipment, it is essential that the timbers are parallel to one another and square-on. The disadvantage with square-on is that some rails are at a significant angle to the timbers. The chairs or baseplates at the V-crossing must fit the rails at the specified positions. This means that it can be difficult to position square-on timbering to support all the rails in the proper place, and occasionally extra timbers or wider ones have to be used to ensure that no chair screws are too close to the edge of a timber. Which explains why equalized timbering was used in the first place, in the days when pointwork was laid out and assembled on site by the local gang. It makes it much easier to get all the chairs properly supported, and it doesn't matter too much if an odd timber is an inch out of position. It also means that the two check rails are both in the same position relative to the V-crossing (frog) for traffic on each road. Nowadays check rails are quite long, so that doesn't matter so much. Diamond-crossings and slips are always equalized, as it is practically impossible to get all the K-crossing rail-fixings in the correct place if the timbers are square-on to one of the roads. Complex junctions and station throats often require considerable ingenuity in laying out the timbering, to ensure that all rail-fixings are in the correct place on the rails, and properly supported, and that all timbers can be tamped. The timbering design of a complex layout was something of a black art. And with Templot's Shove Timber functions you can learn all about it! Having decided on square-on or equalized style, you then need to decide between in-line or centralized timber ends. More about that in this group message: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/templot/message/773 There is also a lot of further discussion about timbering in this group sequence: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/templot/messages/2053?expand=1 Apart from equalized-incremental and square-on, Templot also has two further timbering styles - equalized constant and angled-on. These are intended for use when you are using superimposed partial templates, as an aid to subsequent timber shoving. (Equalized constant is also used for half-diamonds, of course.) I'm not aware that either of these styles would ever be correct for a single turnout - unless anyone knows otherwise? Secondly I am used to points being described in inch radius, I understand that I will now work in crossing angles, but is there a simple chart or a rule of thumb which tells me what the equivalent crossing angles are to 36", 48" and 60" radius points please, as this will give me a good reference point.I have answered that in a separate topic: topic 397 to leave this one all about timbering. regards, Martin. |
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posted: 2 Apr 2008 19:55 from: Hayfield
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Martin Thanks for going into so much detail, shows how much variation there is an an area we take for granted. John |
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posted: 3 Apr 2008 00:08 from: BeamEnds click the date to link to this post click member name to view archived images |
If I might just add - I had a play with square-on timbering, but the results were not too good looking. I expect that this is due to model railways having much sharper radii - on "straight" track all was well, but on curves of any apprciable radius it looked rather toy-like - could just be me though! Cheers Richard |
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