Templot Club Archive 2007-2020                             

topic: 6Re: Templot Tuition
author remove search highlighting
 
posted: posted: 16 May 2007 03:42

from:

Templot User
 
Posted By Email

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
=== from Bob Ellis ===

Yes, but three years and I still can't get any further than working through
the tutorials - that is a longer learning curve than I had expected!

Bob Ellis

From: templot@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of midlandp4

Templot isn't weird it's different. No it doesn't follow what might be
termed Windows norms; it uses the keyboard a lot whereas Windows
programmes tend to use the mouse and icons. Actually that's easy enough
replicated in Templot if you activate the Windows screen keyboard.

Templot is a sophisticated programme and they take some getting to
grips with. Just try learning AutoCAD in a couple of hours. It can't be
done. Yes there is a need for a manual but don't get the idea that all
is then solved. Try looking at an AutoCAD manual and I defy anyone to
learn the programme from just reading the manual.

No you have just got to start using it, playing around until it clicks.

I can knock up a track plan quite quickly now but I also realise that
there are features in Templot that I don't even know about yet. It's a
journey; you just have to make your mind up whether you want to take it
or not.

As someone said: if it's easy it's not worth while.

Alan Turner

posted: posted: 16 May 2007 04:34

from:

sevenmil
 
 

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
 Hi Alan, I tend to agree with Bob Ellis, It seems he has described my thoughts on an earlier E-mail. I have been using Templot for a couple of years now & all I do is print out bog standard turnouts & track, then tack it all together on the layout board. I would like to print out the plan I want, but can't get my head round the protocol.
  Judging by Martins comments it would seem he has created a giant that is slowly getting the better of him, which is why a manual would be of more use to people like myself. eg., I have no idea of what I have missed with recent developments on Templot. awaiting the replies & hate mail...
I can't seem to change my profile to put my name in can you help

regards  Peter Hepworth (sevenmil)

posted: posted: 16 May 2007 10:34

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
I don't often do this, but just to counter the general tone of this thread, I have just now received a message from a recent new user in New Zealand:

I have to say that in the short period of time I have used it I'm very impressed with the ease and flexibility of the application - nothing so far has caused any issues.  Well done, a very nice product.

(But no more of the same please, I'm not fishing for "me too"s. :) )

Martin.


 




posted: posted: 16 May 2007 15:16

from:

Templot User
 
Posted By Email

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
=== from Paul Boyd ===

> === from Bob Ellis ===
> Yes, but three years and I still can't get any further than working through
> the tutorials - that is a longer learning curve than I had expected!



Bob - what is it that you want to do that you can't? To create a simple template for a turnout or joining templates together is very easy. Designing a whole layout or making a double slip isn't quite so easy, but the process is quite logical once you understand the basics (and I don't think Templot was intended for "whole layout" designs, but it does it very well). Perhaps if you could explain where you get stuck we can help, and perhaps relieve some of the load from Martin :)

Don't take this the wrong way, but are you spending an hour a night on the tutorials or an hour every six months? I'm the last person who normally uses tutorials, but when I dived straight into Templot I ground to a halt because, like most people it seems, I was expecting a CAD/Windows type package. The tutorials really did help to re-adjust my mindset and make me understand the way the software works. Most of it seems second nature now, but I'm still finding new things and there are still things I'm aware of being there but don't really understand what
they do!

--
Paul Boyd
[urlhttp://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/[/url]


posted: posted: 16 May 2007 21:12

from:

Bob Ellis
 
 

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Hi Paul,

What I would like to achieve in the first instance is to produce a track plan for the P4 test track I am building. This will contain four sets of points and one single slip. It needs to represent North Eastern Railway practice c.1910/11 since it will be a dry run for the model of Leyburn station at that date I shall begin building next year when the conversion of my garage into a bespoke railway room has been completed. This means I need points with interlaced sleepers and non-standard switches - standard REA B8s, for example, just will not do. Trust me to make life difficult for myself! :?

I can produce the plain track and shove the timbers to the appropriate places. I am not even thinking about the single slip yet, which I shall not attempt until I have completed the 'easier' parts. Martin was kind enough to produce templates for a couple of sets of points, which enabled me to build a cross-over when I went to Norman Soloman's trackbuilding course at Missenden Abbey in March (thank you, Martin - much appreciated), but I don't have a clue how to go about constructing similar templates for myself and incorporating them in my overall track plan.

You might say, why don't I just use Martin's templates. If I did so, all the sets of points would be to the same dimensions and, since the Leyburn layout will represent the track as it was on the prototype, standardisation would not be appropriate.

You would be right in thinking that I am being rather ambitious for someone who is struggling to master Templot, but this is what I bought Templot to do. Templot is there to help me construct my layout and I don't want to compromise on how I build it in order to make it easier to construct the track plan in Templot.

Sorry for the long explanation...but you did ask!

Best wishes,

Bob Ellis

 

posted: posted: 16 May 2007 23:16

from:

Richard Spratt
 
Stockton-upon-Tees - United Kingdom

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
I for one find Templot not too difficult.  I’ve only owned a copy for 2 months and have produced the track plan for our area group’s new (first) layout.  Ok it only has 6 turnouts, but they have changed as the design progressed, and at one point there was a tandem in the middle of them. 

 

The biggest problem was when I tried to trace some OS maps for my own layout using transition curves.  I couldn’t get them to match with those on the map.  Then Martin pointed out that the curves on the map have a kink, so no wonder I was struggling.

 

Regards

 

Richard Spratt

 

PS Bob we might run a Templot day in the AG sometime.  Roger has been muttering about templates for GWR broad and mixed gauge.

posted: posted: 17 May 2007 02:21

from:

Templot User
 
Posted By Email

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Bob,

We did speak earlier on re Leyburn Station and the WRA. If you contact me off line I may be able to help. I am NOT a Templot expert but have used it to produce a layout plans for a M & GN Stations. You will find my phone in Relay under York / Knares.

Regards,

John M.

posted: posted: 17 May 2007 10:34

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
::: Bob Ellis wrote:
> It needs to represent North Eastern Railway practice c.1910/11 < :::

Hi Bob,

Compared to most pre-grouping modellers you should be laughing with the NER because you have the excellent NERA 1912 track standards reprint for reference. That shows both "sleepered" (interlaced) and "timbered" designs, but so far no-one has been able to say which were used where and why. Anyone? Or is it simply a matter of studying photographs?


::: > Martin was kind enough to produce templates for a couple of sets of points < :::

er, turnouts -- or "Single Junctions" on the NER. A "set of points" is just the switch.


::: > but I don't have a clue how to go about constructing similar templates for myself and incorporating them in my overall track plan < :::

As I mentioned, to make progress you need to be a bit more specific and talk in actual numbers. Here is your next question on the forum: "I have a .box data file for NER 15ft switch +1:8 crossing, sleepered turnout. According to the NERA book the next switch size up is 17ft-6in, which is used with 1:9, 1:9.5, 1:10, 1:10.5 crossings. I would like to create a template for a 17ft-6in + 1:10 sleepered turnout. Which settings do I need to change on the 15ft-8 to get to 17ft6in-10?"

And if it goes on raining I will answer that with a bit of video later today.

regards,

Martin.
---------------------------
orders, licensing and installation:  martin@templot.com
user support:  http://www.templot.com/forum
main web site:  http://www.templot.com

posted: posted: 17 May 2007 16:28

from:

Phil O
 
Plymouth - United Kingdom

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Hi Bob

Why not try doing something doing something less complicated and string a few ordinary templates together first before trying to do something specific this is how I started.

First a couple of lengths of plain track try the curving and transitions then insert a turnout or two in the plain track then make that into a simple crossover etc. Then change the switch and crossing angles etc and before you know it you've got the makings of a layout it might not be what you want to build but you've spent a bit of time and produced something viable. Keep experimenting with the various options available and you will get proficient enough to produce the layout you want.

I'm not sure about the interlaced plain timbers though but thats when Martin will be able to point you in the right direction.

From little acorns mighty oaks grow.

Cheers Phil

posted: posted: 17 May 2007 16:36

from:

Bob Ellis
 
 

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Hi John M,

Thanks very much for your kind offer. I am going to have another go at producing the plan for the test track and will contact you when I get stuck - this is likely to be quite soon. :?

Best wishes,

Bob

posted: posted: 17 May 2007 16:53

from:

Bob Ellis
 
 

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Hi Martin,

Yes, I am fortunate in having the 1912 Track Standards Book, which is a mine of useful information.

I am not aware of any rule about when the NER used sleepered and when they used timbered single junctions (by the way thank you for pointing out that the NER described them as single junctions rather than sets of points or turnouts). I have over three hundred photos of Leyburn station dated from 1877 to the 1980s when the track in the goods yard was lifted. It is not always easy on to see on the photos whether the single junctions were sleepered or timbered, but the photos that are clear all show sleepered single junctions. There does not appear to have been a timbered single junction anywhere at Leyburn, so all the ones I build will be sleepered.

I could not have formulated the specific question you posed for me as clearly as you have done, but now you have done so I can see that it is what I need. The video should help enormously and I await it eagerly. I feel both my enthusiasm and my confidence growing already.

Best wishes and enormous amounts of gratitude,

Bob

posted: posted: 17 May 2007 17:00

from:

Bob Ellis
 
 

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Hi Phil,

>Why not try doing something doing something less complicated >and string a few ordinary templates together first before trying to >do something specific this is how I started. First a couple of >lengths of plain track try the curving and transitions then insert a >turnout or two in the plain track then make that into a simple >crossover etc.

I have tried that and can do most of it, although I don't really understand transitions, but that is another issue for later. My problems begin when I try to move outside my comfort zone and produce something that I want to build, based on the NER prototype. However, Martin's last posting looks as though the video he has offered to produce will begin to address that, so I shall be trying again very soon!

Best wishes,

Bob

posted: posted: 17 May 2007 17:08

from:

Dave Smith
 
Copthorne - United Kingdom

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Hi Bob.

 

I assisted a fellow Club member to use his Templot to produce a track plan for a new claun layout.

 

Yes Templot is different but I found that with a keyboard sheet in front of me, and 'playing with Templot for a while, things soon came together. So, as others have said, have a 'play' first of all then get serious.

When you get down to the actual plane, try this. It might sount a bit like going two steps back and one forward but it worked for us.

If you havene't got the boards already built, draw them full size on a role of lining paper. Mark where you would like the tracks to be situated but most importantly where they cross the baseboard joints. Measure the points at which this happens and transfer these points to baseborads drwan in Templot.

 

Thses are drawn as 'shapes' and appear in the screen. using the right measurements, they can appear as a series of shapes joined to each other.

Now lay pieces of plain track onto the screen and make sure they pass through the points of reference you took from the full size plan.

Save this plan and the shapes.

Now start 'playing until you acheive your gaol.

Please mail me for any more help.

Best of luck

 

Dave Smith

 

 

 

 

 

 

posted: posted: 18 May 2007 00:58

from:

Jim Guthrie
 
United Kingdom

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Bob Ellis wrote: 
It is not always easy on to see on the photos whether the single junctions were sleepered or timbered, but the photos that are clear all show sleepered single junctions. There does not appear to have been a timbered single junction anywhere at Leyburn, so all the ones I build will be sleepered.


Bob,

When checking out Scottish pre-Grouping photos for interlaced turnouts,  I found the quickest method of identifying them was by the increased number of chairs at the crossing - which is usually easily visible when the sleepers or timbers may not be if the viewing angle is acute and/or the ballast is high.

Jim.

posted: posted: 18 May 2007 01:24

from:

Templot User
 
Posted By Email

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
=== from Paul Boyd ===

Hi Bob,

> but I don't have a clue how to go about constructing similar templates for myself and incorporating them in my overall track plan.


You really do need to persevere with the tutorials, I'm afraid.  For instance, in its simplest form a crossover is 'Tools > Make simple crossover' once you have the first turnout how you want it.  A single slip isn't actually that hard if all you want is a basic guide to build from. [see footnote]  There is a tutorial on the Templot website that shows how to do a slip.  Don't try to follow this on your main plan, but start a new file and just follow the tutorial.  When you understand how it works, only then can you start to change it to suit your particular need.

 
> You would be right in thinking that I am being rather ambitious for someone who is struggling to master Templot, but this is what I bought Templot to do.


Others have already said what I would have said had I got in earlier - start with something simpler!  An analogy - if you had never built any brass kits before, would you go and buy a Martin Finney A4 as your first kit?  You have to get some kits under your belt first.  Likewise with Templot - you need to get some experience before going for the master plan.  At least with Templot you don't have to keep buying things after the initial purchase, unlike working your way up through levels of kits.  I understand that your reason for buying Templot was this plan, but I really would suggest just drawing out random plans, or perhaps copying from books until you get a really good feel for Templot, is the best way forward.

 
> Sorry for the long explanation...but you did ask!

I did, didn't I?!?!

[footnote] A quick and dirty single slip:-
Start with a straight turnout.
Tools > Make diamond crossing
Ctrl-V to copy to background
Template > Convert half-diamond to turnout
Tools > Make slip road
F6 (Curving) curve slip road so it meets the exit track.
Ctrl-V to paste to background

Not elegant, but good enough to build from (even if it does only have one switch!)

Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

posted: posted: 18 May 2007 01:57

from:

Ian
 
 

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Hi everybody in web land!
To all those who've been having difficulty using templot, it really isn't that hard....i really haven't got a clue about real track, so if i can do it......

One Christmas I worked through the plan tutorial about three or four times until I got the hang of it then I jumped in. I scanned an old map of Caeharris (GWR/RR), had no idea how to scale it, so enlarged it until the track matched the size of the templot track an dwent for it. Within a couple of late evenings over the new year I had a complete layout! I can only echo what has been already said use the tutorials and have a go! it really does work!

Ian

posted: posted: 18 May 2007 02:05

from:

Templot User
 
Posted By Email

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
=== from Paul Boyd ===
Hmmmm..
I've just re-read the post I sent just now, and bits have dropped out of what was sent.  Specifically, anything inside square brackets, in this case pointing to a footnote.
So, just in case anyone else is thinking about using square brackets with this new setup, don't!
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

posted: posted: 18 May 2007 02:19

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Hi Paul,

The square brackets appeared on the forum ok. See:

topic 6 - message 30

But they don't survive distribution by email, so it's better not to use them as you say.

Martin.

posted: posted: 18 May 2007 02:51

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Paul Boyd wrote:

> [footnote] A quick and dirty single slip:-


Hi Paul,

You forgot to mention that there is a video showing how to do a single slip:

http://www.templot.com/martweb/videos/single_slip_straight.exe

regards,

Martin.

posted: posted: 18 May 2007 03:04

from:

Dave Smith
 
Copthorne - United Kingdom

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Sorry about all that terrible spelling in my earlier posting.

Must have had jittery fingers this morning.


David A Smith
Copthorne. West Sussex

posted: posted: 18 May 2007 15:26

from:

Paul Boyd
 
Loughborough - United Kingdom

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Hi Martin

> You forgot to mention that there is a video showing how to do a single slip:
> http://www.templot.com/martweb/videos/single_slip_straight.exe

I did indeed forget that there was a video for this.  I couldn't find a link from the main site to the videos list - is that because there isn't one or because I've still got my eyes half closed?

In the meantime, I've bookmarked the videos folder!

Cheers

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

posted: posted: 18 May 2007 16:06

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Hi Paul,

    > I couldn't find a link from the main site to the videos list -
    > is that because there isn't one or because I've still got
    > my eyes half closed?

There isn't one. The videos are still experimental in format and covering random topics. They are currently only linked via the user group -- I have posted a list two or three times on the group. I really must get things integrated and updated.

I will post the video list again shortly in a fresh topic.

regards,

Martin.




Templot Club > Forums > Templot talk > Re: Templot Tuition
about Templot Club

Templot Companion - User Guide - A-Z Index Templot Explained for beginners Please click: important information for new members and first-time visitors.
indexing link for search engines

back to top of page


Please read this important note about copyright: Unless stated otherwise, all the files submitted to this web site are copyright and the property of the respective contributor. You are welcome to use them for your own personal non-commercial purposes, and in your messages on this web site. If you want to publish any of this material elsewhere or use it commercially, you must first obtain the owner's permission to do so.
The small print: All material submitted to this web site is the responsibility of the respective contributor. By submitting material to this web site you acknowledge that you accept full responsibility for the material submitted. The owner of this web site is not responsible for any content displayed here other than his own contributions. The owner of this web site may edit, modify or remove any content at any time without giving notice or reason. Problems with this web site? Contact webmaster@templot.com.   This web site uses cookies: click for information.  
© 2020  

Powered by UltraBB - © 2009 Data 1 Systems