Templot Club Archive 2007-2020
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posted: 27 Oct 2009 01:01 from: Simon Dunkley
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Hi, Does anyone have the gen that would enable me to produce templates for GER track, both plain (rail lengths and sleeper spacing) and turnouts? From photographs, I have noticed that they had interlaced sleepers between the switches and crossings, but used timbers under these. Some time ago a 1:8 NER interlaced turnout template was made available, but practices differ, althoguh it can be used as a starting point. (Pardon the pun - it was unintentional.) My primary interest is to suit a branchline in the late Edwardian era, so I suspect the practice would be that current some 15-20 years earlier. My sketched out layout plan is based mostly on using 1in7 crossings. Regards, Simon |
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posted: 27 Oct 2009 10:46 from: Martin Wynne
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Hi Simon, The man to ask for all things GER is Adrian Marks of this parish. You can send him a private message by clicking: http://85a.co.uk/forum/pm.php?send_to=Adrian%20Marks I believe the Great Eastern Railway Society have some track drawings available: http://www.gersociety.org.uk There is quite a lot of GER info in C. J. Allen's 1915 book, here are a couple of scans from it: 2_290310_180000000.jpg  2_280950_180000000.jpg  Click the above images to go to the relevant pages in the Image Gallery, where you can click the links to see the original full-size scans. I can do more scans if you wish, but probably not today. Some information about GER plain track is at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/templot/message/5230 regards, Martin. |
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posted: 27 Oct 2009 11:36 from: Simon Dunkley
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Hi Martin, Ade has already contacted me directly and may be able to help me track down a copy of CJ Allen's work - a bit embarrassing not to have thought of asking him directly, actually. As for the Yahoogroups thread, thanks for the link. For some reason I deregistered from the yahoogroup, but of course there is a valuable archive on there: the group does not turn up on searches within Yahoogroups, so the link is very useful. And for a second dose of embarrassment, I actually contributed to that discussion. Since I am now a few years over the median age in the UK, I will put it down to growing senility... Regards, Simon |
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posted: 27 Oct 2009 12:38 from: Adrian Marks click the date to link to this post click member name to view archived images |
Thanks Martin. Although I believe the GERS itself doesn't hold the drawings, they do have a list of standard GE plans held at the ERO at Chelmsford; these are dated between 1898 and 1924. The 13 sleepers per 30ft rail taken from Allen and discussed in the link above is absolutely correct, but not really suitable for Simon's purposes. On 31st of March 1904, two years after their first meeting on the subject, Civil Engineer Wilson reported to the Way & Works Committee vis-a-vis the Colchester Main Line, that whereas it was his normal practice to put down 11 sleepers per 30ft length of rail, where traffic was heavy he had increased this rate to 13 sleepers per 30ft. This action was a direct result of the introduction of the Claud Hamilton Class 4-4-0s (LNER D14, D15 & D16) in 1900, and the GER's very late and rather protracted introduction of bogie stock on prestigious services (the first general service bogie carriage emerged from Stratford in 1897, but bogie Full Brakes weren't introduced until ten years later). Increasingly heavy traffic and the introduction of the S69 Class 4-6-0 (LNER B12) just prior to the Great War saw 18 sleepers per 45ft of rail introduced after the conflict. Interestingly, and not well known, is that the GER also produced specifications for 13 sleepers per 30ft rail and 19 sleepers per 45ft of rail, both with staggered joints. Although I don't have a drawing of the earlier 11 sleepers with 30ft rail which is what Simon really needs, I do have dimensions from which I can extrapolate and produce a sketch. I'll post all these here later for reference. Adrian |
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| Last edited on 27 Oct 2009 12:43 by Adrian Marks |
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posted: 27 Oct 2009 13:26 from: Martin Wynne
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Simon Dunkley wrote: As for the Yahoogroups thread, thanks for the link. For some reason I deregistered from the yahoogroup, but of course there is a valuable archive on thereHi Simon, It's not necessary to join the Yahoo group to access and search the archive. It includes all the messages* from this forum in addition to the old Yahoo group messages, so it's a valuable resource -- 14,000 messages in all, and the search function works quite well nowadays. There is a link at the top of every page on here ("quick links", above), but here it is again: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/templot/messages/ However, it is worth being a member, so that in addition to the archive you can also access all the group files and photos. Not much gets added there since we started this forum, but there is a lot of useful stuff still there from before. *original messages only (as for the emails). Subsequent edits and additions to the messages are not included. regards, Martin. |
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posted: 27 Oct 2009 17:45 from: Simon Dunkley
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Martin Wynne wrote:
A useful reminder. I went to Yahoogroups before visiting this forum and searched for Templot, It gave me two references, but nothing about the Templot group itself. I have re-registered, but the link above is very useful and I had not noticed it before. Regards, Simon |
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posted: 28 Oct 2009 02:04 from: Adrian Marks click the date to link to this post click member name to view archived images |
Here are the drawings of plain GER track. Most of this came from Roger Farrant, Permanent Way co-ordinator for the GERS, and the dimensions were taken directly from Stratford drawings. The 30ft rail with 11 sleepers is my drawing based upon an article by Roger in the January 1977 issue of the GERS Journal. For the record, the six three-foot centres are a known figure from the 1883 specification, but the narrower centres either side are based upon secondary sources and Roger's research. As far as I know, no contrary information has come to light since then. 30ft rail, 13 sleepers even joint: 1'0, 2'0", 2'2", 2'4", 6 x 2'6", 2'4", 2'2", 2'0", 1'0. 30ft rail, 13 sleepers staggered joint: 1'0", 2'1½", 4 x 2'6", 2'1", 1'0", 1'0", 2'1½" 3x 2'6", 2'1½", 1'0". 45ft rail, 18 sleepers even joint: 1'0", 2'3", 2'5½", 13 x 2'7", 2'5½", 2'3", 1'0". 45ft rail, 19 sleepers staggered joint: 1'0",2'1½", 7 x 2'6", 2'1½", 1'0", 1'0" 2'1½", 6 x 2'6", 2'1½", 1'0". 53_272058_470000000.png 53_272059_440000000.png |
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| Last edited on 28 Oct 2009 10:19 by Adrian Marks |
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posted: 28 Oct 2009 19:00 from: Richard Spratt
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Martin Wynne wrote: ...info in C. J. Allen's 1915 book, What's the full title of Allen's book please? I'd like to borrow it from a library. Are there any other early books about permanent way? Thanks. PS A search on Abebooks has yielded over 600 books with Allen as an author and 1915..... |
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| Last edited on 28 Oct 2009 19:03 by Richard Spratt |
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posted: 28 Oct 2009 20:03 from: richard_t
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There is the NERA Track Drawing book: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php/blog/151/entry-370-a-good-read/ |
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| Last edited on 28 Oct 2009 20:03 by richard_t |
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posted: 28 Oct 2009 21:01 from: Martin Wynne
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Richard Spratt wrote:What's the full title of Allen's book please?Hi Richard, "Modern British Permanent Way", Cecil J. Allen, published by The Railway News, London, 1915. It was originally written as a series of articles in that magazine between 1911 and 1914, and then compiled as a book in 1915. So if you can't find the book, you might find some relevant copies of the magazine. regards, Martin. |
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