Templot Club Archive 2007-2020
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posted: 21 Oct 2012 13:23 from: PeterD
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For reference: Original topic: topic 1836. The attached plan is very loosely based upon the Bath Green park in the station area. I have somewhat simplified the layout to reduce the dimensions but it should provide the essence of the operation. Intended operation Down passenger trains run into the Arrival Platform from the main line. Branch passenger trains use a branch platform or can be routed to the Arrival Platform across the up/down main running lines at the station throat. When passenger trains arrive, the locomotive is de-coupled and runs round the train to reach the engine shed area for servicing and turning as necessary. The Station Pilot takes the coaches to Carriage Sidings 1 or 2 releasing the platform. The Station Pilot assembles Up Trains from carriages in the sidings. The train locomotive then replaces the Station Pilot having been prepared at the engine shed area.Up passenger trains can be routed to either the main line or the branch line. Branch passenger trains are normally operated by a tank locomotive and a loop line has been provided to allow it to run round its train at the platform. This loop is also used by goods trains which I thought would mean that the goods sidings leading from it would have to be controlled by the station signal box. Goods trains from both the branch and the main lines have a shared entry and seperate shared exit on the goods lines. The engine shed area exit is controlled by a ground signal operated from the Station Signal Box. All other turnouts in this area are then switched by ground levers. This layout could always have something, with a purpose, happening and be fun to operate for 1-4 operators. It shall be DCC with the option for computer control. Signalling I have attempted to put together a signalling plan. I found that I would need to construct a gantry across the station throat. Gradients The station area will be level. The main line will fall 1:20 leading to a looped fiddle yard and the branch line will rise 1:20 leading industry and a small branch line station. Period and Region 1950-1967. LMS/Southern Known Shortcomings in Track Plan Timber shoving and check rails to be carried out. My request to you Could you please comment on the plans? I have found, through past experience, that unless I consider all these aspects of planning first, I would end up with a nightmare build/modify phase. Your own experience/knowledge will avoid me making mistakes so I shall be very grateful for any help. 2184_210816_180000000.png  Thank you for looking Best wishes Peter The full-size image is in the Image Gallery at: gallery/2184/original/2184_210816_180000000.png |
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posted: 21 Oct 2012 16:46 from: PeterD
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oops, I have just found a reference to the minimum distance between the adjacent rail and a signal post - 5' 1". This obviously will force further changes to ensure my track spacings are correct. Sorry for posting prematurely but this is a good example of why it is always best to check before starting any build. I have two options - keep things as they are and use bracket signals in places of conflict or redesign to make compliant spacings. If anyone has any suggestions I would still like to hear from you so that these can be included in my re-vamp. Best wishes Peter |
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posted: 22 Oct 2012 10:40 from: Martin Wynne
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PeterD wrote:I have just found a reference to the minimum distance between the adjacent rail and a signal post - 5' 1".Hi Peter, That's a very odd dimension.  Where did you find it? is it from the edge of the post or the centre? To which edge of the running rail? The usual track spacings for multiple tracks (minimum) are alternating 6ft way and 10ft way. If a signal post is placed in the middle of the 10ft way, the centre of it will be 5'-0" from the outer edge of the running rail, or 5'-2.3/4" from the gauge face. A quick look at some GWR signal drawings shows them all dimensioned from the gauge face of the rail to the centre of the post. Assuming you have the required minimum spacing of 10ft way (15'-2" centres) for loops and sidings adjacent to double-track, I think you can safely place a signal post in the middle of that space. regards, Martin. |
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posted: 22 Oct 2012 11:10 from: PeterD
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Martin Wynne wrote: PeterD wrote:Hi MartinI have just found a reference to the minimum distance between the adjacent rail and a signal post - 5' 1".Hi Peter, Thanks for your reply. I obtained the 5' 1" minimum dimension from Pictorial record of Southern Signals by G. Pryer, page 35. This dimension is between the track side of the signal post, to the outside edge of the nearest running rail. I feel really embarrassed at having posted the layout plan without taking into account the multiple track spacing. I used the default  . I had intended to use the Scalescenes Overall roof to cover the main station area but with expanding the space for 10' ways I shall run out of space between the platform faces.Two solutions to this would be to reduce the terminus to 3 tracks (but this would loose the operational interest) or, to retain the 4 tracks and replace the walls with piers to support the roof. I know this is off topic but it serves to give context to what I have tried to achieve. My problem is that I had already used Templot successfully before and was over confident. I thought I knew enough. What has happened over the 5 year break in using Templot was that things had moved on so much. I am working through the tutorials to make sure I do this better. Best wishes Peter |
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posted: 22 Oct 2012 12:50 from: Martin Wynne
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PeterD wrote:I feel really embarrassed at having posted the layout plan without taking into account the multiple track spacing. I used the defaultHi Peter, No need to be embarrassed -- it's your railway. You can set your tracks at any spacing you like without going to jail.  The prototype rules actually allow for an absolute minimum of 9ft way where existing space constraints make it unavoidable, such as on viaducts or between platforms. Of course, you can't then have a signal post in that space. So with 4 tracks between your platforms, only the centre space needs to be increased to 9ft way, that's an increase of only 3ft (12mm) overall. If you made it only 9mm extra, no-one would notice. Also, modelling 00 gauge means you can reduce the track centres and still obey the rules for the distance between the actual rails. (But not for normal double-track of course -- 44.67mm min centres for running clearance.)Rod Cameron once posted a prototype pic which seemed to show a siding adjacent to double track spaced at only 6ft way. There is usually a prototype for anything. regards, Martin. |
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posted: 23 Oct 2012 23:57 from: PeterD
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Martin Wynne wrote: PeterD wrote:I feel really embarrassed at having posted the layout plan without taking into account the multiple track spacing. I used the defaultHi Peter, Hi Martin, Thanks for your reply. I have started to modify the layout to ensure I had the minimum spacing to allow signal posts to be placed between the track. This gave me the opportunity to re-look at the branch junction layout. I have made significant changes here which can be seen in the screenshot. The crossing on the lower right will become a single slip providing a connection between the goods and Up main. Before developing this further, I want to create crossings at the intersection of the overlaid track (3-off). I seem to recall a description as to how this can be achieved on the website. Alas, I cannot find it. Please can you help? Thanks2184_231856_480000000.png  |
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posted: 24 Oct 2012 01:47 from: Martin Wynne
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PeterD wroteBefore developing this further, I want to create crossings at the intersection of the overlaid track (3-off). I seem to recall a description as to how this can be achieved on the website. Alas, I cannot find it. Please can you help?Hi Peter, Use method 3 described here: topic 2080 One of your crossings looks to be getting close to the shortest Templot can do, 1:1.5 In which case you may perhaps want to adjust the tracks a little. The above method in its basic form as given there applies only to straights and constant radius curves. It looks that some of your crossings will be on transition curves. That requires a bit more work, although not too difficult. I will try to get a tutorial done soon -- I seem to be saying that a lot lately. At present I'm a bit too busy with coding for the next update. regards, Martin. |
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posted: 26 Oct 2012 06:17 from: PeterD
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Martin Wynne wrote: PeterD wroteBefore developing this further, I want to create crossings at the intersection of the overlaid track (3-off). I seem to recall a description as to how this can be achieved on the website. Alas, I cannot find it. Please can you help?Hi Peter, Thanks for the help Martin. I have eased the angles and created the crossing and double slip at the junction. Timber shoving is yet to be done. Does this look OK? Having given great thought to how the Departure line could be served by the two carriage sidings, I came up with a scissors crossing. The one I have constructed is a bit Heath Robinsonish but the trackwork seem to work OK. What I could not work out is how I could cut individual rail lengths. Is there a better way of achieving this? Thanks Peter Box file attached. - Note Goods yard and engine sheds have yet to be completed. |
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| Attachment: attach_1524_2084_the_dale_2012_10_26_0605_29.box 222 | |||
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posted: 26 Oct 2012 11:47 from: Martin Wynne
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Hi Peter, Thanks for uploading the file. I'm a bit puzzled why you have widened all the tracks to 10ft way? I thought you were trying to fit an overall roof? It was only necessary to change the middle space -- the idea is that the spacings alternate, 6ft way / 10ft way. i.e. between your platforms you would have: platform - track - 44.67mm centres - track - 60.67mm centres - track - 44.67mm centres - track - platform And if the platforms were already there when the track was renewed, the centre spacing can be legitimately reduced to 9ft way (56.67mm centres). regards, Martin. |
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posted: 26 Oct 2012 13:07 from: PeterD
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Martin Wynne wrote: Hi Peter, Thanks Martin, I thought I would have to increase to 10' way due to the signalling on either side of the station tracks. Thinking about it a bit clearer, the 6' way would still allow me to accomodate ground signals. It would only be necessary to increase it for signal posts. Back to the drawing board and I shall change the spacing. At least it is best to get things right at this stage as changes are easier to implement. As for the scissors crossing, is there a better way of producing this? Thanks again for your help Peter |
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