Templot Club Archive 2007-2020                             

topic: 606Timber Interlacing
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posted: 31 Oct 2008 14:30

from:

David
 
 

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Hi guys

Firstly, what great software and how glad I am that I bought it.

Upon the construction of my first turnout from templot I discovered a problem in the Interlacing of Timbers that i hadn't planned as below....

   interlacing.jpg?t=1225698298interlacing.jpg?t=1225698298

During consctruction I decided to add an additional Turnout Timber and make the rail joint in between these. Couldn't see how else to achieve the rail joint between chairs and was concerned about to greater length of rail unsupported.  In the image above obviously still some tiding to be done , but that was the general arrangement.  This was the final arrangement below.

  attachment.php?id=378attachment.php?id=378

I hope some one can help me and hope the images help explain problem.  My main concern is placing of rail joints and their fishplates.

Regards

Dave
Attachment: attach_378_606_additional_timber.jpg 653
Last edited on 3 Nov 2008 12:45 by David
posted: 31 Oct 2008 16:00

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Hi Dave,

Welcome to Templot Club and thanks for the kind words. :)

Which version of Templot are you using? To perform detailed adjustments of rail joints you need to upgrade to the latest versions, at least version 082d .

I'm sorry to be a bit dense, but could you explain what you want to do in greater detail? If you switch on the timber numbering for your screenshots, you can refer to the timbers by number. You can also use marker colours to show each template in a different colour.

Some general points:

For UK bullhead track, chairs cannot be closer than about 24" centres for standard 4-hole fishplates. Chairs can be offset slightly from the timber centre-line if necessary to achieve this. If it is unavoidable that a joint occurs between closer chairs, 2-hole fishplates may have to be used. On the other hand, rail joints should be supported as close as possible, so if the chair spacing is much greater than about 28" at a joint, additional timbers may be needed, and/or other timbers moved closer together. Getting everything right for a complex track formation is hard work, and varies between prototypes and periods.

In Templot, if you want to adjust the joints for turnout exit track, first split it off as a separate template, tools > make split > make separate exit track menu item.

You can then use the CTRL-F4 roll rails and sleepers mouse action to position the rail joints within it. You may want to do template > swap end-for-end  at the same time (CTRL-N). The roll rails to match function for background plain track templates can then be used to make the rail lengths flow correctly across the template boundaries.

Those functions keep the joints in both rails square side-by-side. If you want to have the rail joints staggered within a template, you must use two partial templates, one for each rail. Note that if you remove the timbering from one of them in the usual way (real > timbering > no timbering menu item), you will also lose the rail joint marks. To remove the timbering and retain the rail joint marks, use the omit all button on the shove timbers dialog instead. You may need to click that more than once, as additional timbers will appear as you roll the rails or change the template length.

You can split a template into two separate templates at a rail joint by jumping the fixing peg along the joints (CTRL+END key repeatedly), and then using the tools > make split > make split at peg menu item. 

However, you won't want to do any of all that until you are sure the track plan is finalised, otherwise you risk wasting a lot of work if you change the design.

I can expand on the above once I'm a bit clearer what you are trying to do.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 31 Oct 2008 16:36

from:

David
 
 

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Thanks for your repy martin.

I am using 0.82.d and modelling gwr in the 40's/50's rather loose their at the moment.

I will try and explain later with some more screen shots

many thx again

dave

posted: 31 Oct 2008 20:01

from:

Nigel Brown
 
 

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Hi Dave
Perhaps I'm being dense here but what actually is the problem? In your second arrangement you can have the rail joints between the final two timbers.

cheers
Nigel

posted: 1 Nov 2008 03:38

from:

David
 
 

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Hi guys here goes....

Thx for all your help.

Picture below shows template that i generated from Templot and attempted to build, hence my discovery upon construction. Hope diagram is more explanary.

 interlacing1.jpg?t=1225698187interlacing1.jpg?t=1225698187


Second picture is as I bulit it in situ on the Templot plan

additionaltimber1.jpgadditionaltimber1.jpg

Sleeper B is an additional crossing timber I added.

My query is quite simply, he says laughingly. Is the above picture prototypical for GWR interlacing.  I believe the interlacing is most likely correct. Are the rail joints in a satisfactory position with regards to the prototype. I have searched for pictures and been unable to establish this. It would be good to see this.

Sorry if I made this more complicated than I needed to in the beginning and hope its clearer.

thx again for your help.

regards all

Dave
Attachment: attach_391_606_additional_timber1.jpg 582

posted: 6 Nov 2008 13:36

from:

David
 
 

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Hi Guys :)

Been scouring  the internet all weekend, found this link below, which I think clarifies position of rail joint in relation to turnout sleepers and interlacing is just visable.

 http://great-western.fotopic.net/p54055759.html

Welcome any comments

regards

Dave

posted: 6 Nov 2008 14:15

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Hi Dave,

Do you have this book? It's the bible for modellers of GWR track. Ignore the misleading reference to 4mm scale in the title, the book is 90% prototype data. There is a drawing of a standard GWR crossing showing joint positions etc. on page 33, and a chart of timber spacings on page 141:

GWR_Track_200px.jpgGWR_Track_200px.jpg

Available from Great Western Study Group

The vee rails span 5 timbers to the rail joint and there are 2 long timbers beyond the joint.

You need to customize the V-crossing in Templot (real > customize V-crossing > vee rail... menu item). To get an exact match to the timber spacings, average the spacings given on the drawing to find the custom setting, and then shove individual timbers to the actual spacings required (see shove spacings topic).

For a 1:6 crossing this means 31" + 32" + 32" + 29.5" = 124.5" , average 124.5 / 4 = 31.125" spacing to enter in Templot. The joint spacing is 25" (12.5" to rail end). GWR blunt nose width is 11/16". Vee rail length is 12ft from the fine-point for all sizes.

I will try to find time to post a customized template later.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 6 Nov 2008 22:30

from:

David
 
 

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Hi Martin

Thanks for your comprehensive reply.

Your reply certainly clarifies things more than the picture I found did.

I shall attempt to digest the data you have provided and let you know how I get on.

I shall explore the link you provided on "Shove Timber space". 

Actually I have been reading lately the concept that you originally  percieved  for templot, that of printing individual templates and then arranging on the boards. Had no idea of this in beginning.

Also enjoyed watching some of your videos very informative.

Appreciate your your

Regards:)

Dave

ps I do have the book, from sept.  I find it heavy reading at bedtime. Had read about timbers, but couldn't come to any conclusion.  Know what you mean about the definative guide though.

posted: 9 Nov 2008 17:52

from:

David
 
 

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Martin Wynne wrote:
Hi Dave,

Do you have this book? It's the bible for modellers of GWR track. Ignore the misleading reference to 4mm scale in the title, the book is 90% prototype data. There is a drawing of a standard GWR crossing showing joint positions etc. on page 33, and a chart of timber spacings on page 141:

GWR_Track_200px.jpgGWR_Track_200px.jpg

Available from Great Western Study Group

The vee rails span 5 timbers to the rail joint and there are 2 long timbers beyond the joint.

You need to customize the V-crossing in Templot (real > customize V-crossing > vee rail... menu item). To get an exact match to the timber spacings, average the spacings given on the drawing to find the custom setting, and then shove individual timbers to the actual spacings required (see shove spacings topic).

For a 1:6 crossing this means 31" + 32" + 32" + 29.5" = 124.5" , average 124.5 / 4 = 31.125" spacing to enter in Templot. The joint spacing is 25" (12.5" to rail end). GWR blunt nose width is 11/16". Vee rail length is 12ft from the fine-point for all sizes.

I will try to find time to post a customized template later.

regards,

Martin.


Hi Martin

I had a ago at adding the additional 2 turnout timbers (Real/Customise V-Crossing).  Worked  fine.  I then addjusted the timber centres in accordance with diagram in the (Switch & Crossing Practice) book, esspecially the 25" for the joint.


turnout.jpg?t=1226235857turnout.jpg?t=1226235857

 


Will apply to all turnouts.

Thanks so much for your input.

Regards

Dave


 

Last edited on 9 Nov 2008 18:04 by David


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