Templot Club Archive 2007-2020                             

topic: 787Honner Turnout Calculator
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posted: 12 Apr 2009 20:10

from:

William Adkins
 
Oregon USA

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I thought I would cut my teeth on Templot by designing a Sn3 curved turnout 30" outside radius/28" inner radius. I entered data in a Honner Turnout Calculator and among other values I see that the frog angle is 3.58 degrees.

Have others used the Honner Calculator and what values go where in Templot?

I'm sure much of my frustration is that I am at the very beginning of a learning curve and that I am unfamiliar with British terminology. Reminds me a bit of:

England and America are two countries separated by a common language.
--George Bernard Shaw

Any help will be appreciated. . . in the meantime back to the Tutorials!

 

Bill 

 

posted: 12 Apr 2009 21:57

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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William Adkins wrote:
I thought I would cut my teeth on Templot by designing a Sn3 curved turnout 30" outside radius/28" inner radius. I entered data in a Honner Turnout Calculator and among other values I see that the frog angle is 3.58 degrees.

Have others used the Honner Calculator and what values go where in Templot?
Hi Bill,

You won't need to design your turnouts using the David Honner's Turnout Calculator. Templot does all that for you, and you can print the resulting templates in much greater detail than the calculator provides.

However, as you found Templot is currently biased towards UK prototype practice. You can prepare templates for any prototype, but non-UK ones need to be fully customized. You will find the prototype data in David Honner's file very useful for that.

"England and America are two countries separated by a common language."
Indeed. :) In this context the most important point to grasp is that in the UK and Templot, a "switch" is ONLY that part of a turnout comprising the moving points, NOT the whole thing:

startup_pad.pngstartup_pad.png

The 28" inner radius you quote is not an input you can use. You get to that figure by starting with a turnout curved to 30" radius in the main road, and then modifying the size of the turnout until the desired inner radius shows up in the information panel.

The size of a turnout is adjusted using the F5 mouse action, and by zooming in close you can get a very fine adjustment. The size of a turnout is the combination of switch type and size (points planing angle), and V-crossing angle (frog angle), and a few other settings such as the type of V-crossing. There are some diagrams explaining this at:

http://www.templot.com/martweb/gs_realtrack.htm

The diverging turnout road is a compound curve of several radii, so you can choose which one to call the "inner radius". The actual radius in the rails between the heel of the switch and the wing rail front is called the "turnout radius" and is usually the smallest radius in the turnout and the one usually meant when handbuilding. Commercial turnouts usually specify the external substitution radius instead.

If you watch this video:

http://www.templot.com/martweb/videos/flash/startup/startup_em.html

you can see the "minimum radius now" figure changing in the info panel as the F5 mouse action is used. This figure is the smallest radius anywhere within the turnout. Having set your 30" radius in the main road, you would make this F5 adjustment until 28" shows as the "minimum radius". By expanding the info panel you can see all the other dimensions for your turnout.

It would be a good idea to experiment with these adjustments on a standard-gauge UK turnout and see how all the figures change, before creating custom Sn3 narrow-gauge templates.

Your radii of 30" and 28" are so similar that a very long turnout is inevitable, which may not be very prototypical for narrow-gauge. The V-crossing angle is likely to be getting towards 1:20 (#20 frog). It would be better to aim for a design with a greater difference between the two radii.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 15 Apr 2009 21:44

from:

William Adkins
 
Oregon USA

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Martin:

Thank you for your courteous and prompt reply. I took your advice and have created a Sn3 26/30 inch curved turnout using a FB BS-110A curved CC-15 LH. Definately close enough to work in my pre-existing design.

I have read several posts  and  watched videos regarding customizing tie size and spacing, however, I must be missing the obvious somewhere. My needs are to create ties 7"x5"x78" evenly spaced 21" for the entire length of the turnout.

Can you provide me some assistance.

Thank you. . . Templot is a terrific program.

Bill

posted: 16 Apr 2009 00:05

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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William Adkins wrote:
I have read several posts and watched videos regarding customizing tie size and spacing, however, I must be missing the obvious somewhere. My needs are to create ties 7"x5"x78" evenly spaced 21" for the entire length of the turnout.
Hi Bill,

Have you seen this topic?

topic 392

Detailed there are some videos to watch for customising narrow-gauge and creating custom switches.

Also a .box file download with some 3ft gauge templates for Fn3, which you could perhaps use as the basis for Sn3 -- certainly the switches:

fn3_15mm_samples.pngfn3_15mm_samples.png

Download the file from fn3_15mm_samples.box

(In Firefox, right-click and Save Link As...)

If you could perhaps upload a diagram of the turnout you are trying to create, or your .box file as far as you have got, it would be easier to know what to suggest. Most US standard-gauge turnouts use straight switches with a heel spread of 6.1/4" at the heel block, but I have no knowledge of US narrow-gauge practice. (The switches in the above file have 4.1/2" heel spread.)

Templot can create an exact match to your prototype turnout, but we do need the data to work from. :)

regards,

Martin.

posted: 26 Apr 2009 01:49

from:

William Adkins
 
Oregon USA

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Martin, et. al:
After a brief delay due to "real world interference. . . a.k.a. making a living. . . I have returned to Templot. Thank you for the fn3 samples box as it was a great starting point for creating a curved template as described.

Now, a question: If I were to convert one or more of the "examples"-straight track, 11 ft. lead turnout- to Sn3 NMRA Code 70 Standards, what would be the best way to save these templates as a starting point for future layout design?

Again, sorry for the bandwidth for a subject I'm sure has been covered before.

Bill

posted: 26 Apr 2009 03:31

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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William Adkins wrote:
If I were to convert one or more of the "examples"-straight track, 11 ft. lead turnout- to Sn3 NMRA Code 70 Standards, what would be the best way to save these templates as a starting point for future layout design?
Hi Bill,

Store the template as a library template and save a .box file with your library template(s) in it. That's main > store as library template menu item.

When you want to use the template in a track plan, reload or add the file, select the template you want on the storage box, click the button to copy it into the control template, and off you go designing a new layout with it:

storage_box_library.pngstorage_box_library.png


Alternatively, simply put the template at the bottom of the workpad below the grid origin line. Anything in the negative quadrants doesn't get printed, so you can use that area as a general dumping ground for templates. Some users like to have a row of them along the bottom of the screen and saved in the .box file. Just click on whichever one you want, copy it to the control template, and shift it to wherever you want. This has the advantage that you don't need to open the storage box to get to your template and you can see them all at a glance.

The disadvantage is that such templates might be inadvertently deleted. Library templates are much more secure against being deleted, and are marked in green in the storage box to help keep them separate from your track plan templates. You can sort them all to the end of the box list by clicking the box > sort library templates menu item on the storage box. Or you can keep a separate .box file containing only library templates, to be added to the storage box as and when needed.

regards,

Martin.



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