Beginner Questions Regarding Plug Track in N Gauge

[mr_yogi]

Hi,

I hope it's ok to post this here, I did think about adding it to the other N gauge plug track thread but didn't want to derail it.

I’m interested in using Templot plug track for my next layout due to the ability to make sweeping curves and transitions with points. The layout will be in my loft and I intend to have the main scenic line run a gentle curve from one corner to the opposite corner with a junction station,which would be a compromise with RTR points. I was originally planning on using 00, but after reading the other thread the prospect of N gauge plug track is exciting. I had been considering getting a laser cutter to build my own 00 track before I found out about the plug track.



I don’t yet have a 3D printer but another advantage of n gauge would be the need for only a resin printer. I had been considering the Elegoo Mars 4/ UItra and something like the Bambu A1/ A1 Mini/ Anycubic Kobra 2/ Pro to produce 00 track, but if the n gauge plug track is viable, I could just get a Saturn 3 Ultra, which would also have benefits for other projects.



I’m currently quite a way off building or laying track and don’t have a complete track plan built in Templot, so if N gauge plug track is still a way off that might still be fine.



Anyway, I have a few questions and would be grateful for any advice or links to suitable existing threads:

1. Is plug track currently viable to build large layouts? If not do you think this is long way off?
2. Is it viable for N gauge layouts, if not will this come in the future with improved printers or Templot updates?
3. What is the best rail N gauge rail to use for reliability, I’m not so bothered about the prototypical details, more the macro look of the track, such as flowing large radius turns.
4. What is the best way to join sections of track, fish plates or something else?
5. Obviously, the build areas of resin printers are limited, do you build each individual section of printed sleeper base separately by threading rail to the length of the section, or do you join a number of sleeper sections together and thread longer rails through the multiple sections of sleepers?
6. When building large layouts can you mix plug track and flexi track (more for non-scenic/ storage yard areas)?
7. When building layouts in Templot is it best to build the whole layout in a single file or build individual sections as separate files?
8. How does plug track work (if at all) with older models? I have some older locos and rolling stock; Graham Farish Poole and Minitrix(N Gauge), Hornby and Wren (00), it would be nice to get these working again even if they are not near the quality of modern models.

Sorry for the long post and many thanks.

 

[Terry Downes]

Hi,

I hope it's ok to post this here, I did think about adding it to the other N gauge plug track thread but didn't want to derail it.

I’m interested in using Templot plug track for my next layout due to the ability to make sweeping curves and transitions with points. The layout will be in my loft and I intend to have the main scenic line run a gentle curve from one corner to the opposite corner with a junction station,which would be a compromise with RTR points. I was originally planning on using 00, but after reading the other thread the prospect of N gauge plug track is exciting. I had been considering getting a laser cutter to build my own 00 track before I found out about the plug track.



I don’t yet have a 3D printer but another advantage of n gauge would be the need for only a resin printer. I had been considering the Elegoo Mars 4/ UItra and something like the Bambu A1/ A1 Mini/ Anycubic Kobra 2/ Pro to produce 00 track, but if the n gauge plug track is viable, I could just get a Saturn 3 Ultra, which would also have benefits for other projects.



I’m currently quite a way off building or laying track and don’t have a complete track plan built in Templot, so if N gauge plug track is still a way off that might still be fine.



Anyway, I have a few questions and would be grateful for any advice or links to suitable existing threads:

1. Is plug track currently viable to build large layouts? If not do you think this is long way off?
2. Is it viable for N gauge layouts, if not will this come in the future with improved printers or Templot updates?
3. What is the best rail N gauge rail to use for reliability, I’m not so bothered about the prototypical details, more the macro look of the track, such as flowing large radius turns.
4. What is the best way to join sections of track, fish plates or something else?
5. Obviously, the build areas of resin printers are limited, do you build each individual section of printed sleeper base separately by threading rail to the length of the section, or do you join a number of sleeper sections together and thread longer rails through the multiple sections of sleepers?
6. When building large layouts can you mix plug track and flexi track (more for non-scenic/ storage yard areas)?
7. When building layouts in Templot is it best to build the whole layout in a single file or build individual sections as separate files?
8. How does plug track work (if at all) with older models? I have some older locos and rolling stock; Graham Farish Poole and Minitrix(N Gauge), Hornby and Wren (00), it would be nice to get these working again even if they are not near the quality of modern models.

Sorry for the long post and many thanks.

Hi, I'm not an N gauge modeller but, here are my thoughts and I'm sure some other plug track users will add their opinions as well.
1. Yes, but complex formations like slips do require some specialised/detailed design.
2. Yes, I have seen members posting articles for N Gauge plug track
3. I'm not sure here, some other N Guage members will need to advise?
4. fishplates
5. You 3d print or laser timber and resin print chairs in sections which suit your printer/laser bed size.
6. Yes
7. Build and evolve the whole layout as a single file and then print/build sections as per #5 above.
8. I believe this all depends on which gauge you utilise N gauge, S2 2FS etc. once again other 2mm modellers will need to explain.
I hope this is of some assistance.

 

[Phil G]

Hi Mr yogi!

Is plug track currently viable to build large layouts? If not do you think this is long way off?

Currently I would say the main limitation in terms of plug track for building layouts, is it will only work with bullhead rail.
This is by design, as you a have to start somewhere and BH lends itself to the design concept. whist Martin does have longer term plans to evolve it to flat bottom rail. We are still a long way from that point.

The rail profile is an important question to consider, because if your planning to use RTR points or flex track you would have to ensure the bullhead rail was compatible. Most RTR N gauge trackwork does not use a true Bullhead rail profile, so your likely to have a compatibility issue to overcome.
Plug track is however very worth whilst experimenting with and using.
cheers
Phil

 

[Martin Wynne]

8. How does plug track work (if at all) with older models? I have some older locos and rolling stock; Graham Farish Poole and Minitrix(N Gauge), Hornby and Wren (00), it would be nice to get these working again even if they are not near the quality of modern models.

@mr_yogi

Hi,

Welcome to Templot Club.

I think the above will be a limiting condition. N gauge models, especially older ones, have coarse wheels with deep flanges which will likely clonk on bullhead chairs. If so, you would need to convert them to 2mm Association fine-scale wheels.

The same applies for older Hornby and Wrenn models in 00.

I have modified the prototype chair dimensions just enough to clear modern RTR wheels in 00 gauge, but it's very close.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[mr_yogi]

Thanks for all the replies, it sounds encouraging.

Is the bullhead rail available from C&L Finescale suitable or are there other products people have found better? Also does anyone know if plug track is compatible with the Finetrax code 40 single/ double slip kits?

As for the old locos and rolling stock, I was planning on using new RTR models but thought it would be nice to be able to run some old locos/ stock too. The new layout will be DCC and none of my existing models are even DCC ready, so only the larger locos are probably able to be chipped. It might make a fun project to convert the wheels on a couple of locos, maybe try a stay alive and even a coreless motor.

Many Thanks

 

[Martin Wynne]

Is the bullhead rail available from C&L Finescale suitable?

Also does anyone know if plug track is compatible with the Finetrax code 40 single/ double slip kits?

@mr_yogi @James Walters

Hi,

Templot plug track is not a product. It's my hobby project shared with modelmakers. For a modelmaker anything is compatible with anything else if you choose to make it so.

It's proving a battle of wits to get this point across. Plug track is an optional addition to Templot intended for modelmakers who know what they are doing. It is still very experimental and an unfinished work-in-progress. N gauge means taking it to the bottom limit and is likely to be a challenge -- I haven't tried it myself.

You can adjust the chair dimensions in Templot to suit whatever bullhead rail you want to use.

If you 3D-print the chairs integral with the timbers, you can change the timber thickness in Templot so that the rail top matches the level of some other track, such as Peco or Finetrax or whatever. Or not, if you don't want to -- it might be a bit flimsy.

If you use separate plug-in chairs, they need thicker timbers, so you would put packing under other tracks if necessary to raise their rail top to the same level.

The advantage of the thicker timbers, apart from extra strength, is that dropper wire connections, switch-drive sliders (tie-bars), etc., can all be made integral with the track and hidden in the ballast, and provision for such is included in the plug track designs. But can optionally be omitted if not wanted, like everything else in plug track.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Phil G]

Hi Mr Yogi,
Firstly may we know your name? As its always better when you know who your talking too.

I am unsure what your main questions, are aimed at to be honest? Given your talking about two different scales.

In plug track terms you can model in N gauge (something like Terry and Martin) I personally don't modelled in that scale. My scale is 4 mm.

The key point here is, there are more options in 4 mm scale within plug track, simply because the physical size of the elements makes that possible. Therefore answers given to N scale questions, may not be exactly the same as answers given to other lager scales.

The most obvious difference is, in 4 mm scale not only can the chairs be made and fitted individually, but so can a representation of the keys.
In 4 mm scale you are most likely to be making the chairs either with loose jaws/keys. (Here the rail code 75BH drops in vertically and then the loose jaws are added to hold the chair and the rail together as per the prototype) Or with complete chairs where the chairs are slid along the rail, again code 75BH similar to the C&L type plastic chairs.

Unlike the C&L type chair which are typically glued to the timber/sleeper. Plug track as the name suggests plugs into a premade socket.
The advantage here is two fold,
1, no track gauges required,
2, track can be modelled very accurately as just like the prototype, it is dropped in vertically from above by using the plugs.

For chairs in 4mm scale, only resin printing has been found to be suitable to make the chairs with the accuracy to needed. Hence chairs are resin printed.

when it comes to timbers FDM printing, or laser cutting out parent material (be it wood or cardboard) are the best options, resin at this scale is not recommend as its been found to warp.

Because the thickness of the timbers, are determined by personal choice, IE the thickness of the parent material used, or the thickness of the FDM timbers chosen. The depth of the plugs within the setting of plug track is variable to match.

This is the point Martin is making about the thickness of the timbers. (it matters only if your mixing and matching with commercial track options.)

Re 2mm scale
Here the method of using plug track can be a bit different.
In plug track the option of separate timbers and chairs does still exist. ( there comes a point where the size may make this not very practical)
Or you can set plug track up to crate timbers with built in chairs. This is main difference between plug track and Finetrax because Finetrax does not use the plug concept, it has the chairs and the timbers built as one item.

Although I don't model in 2 mm scale I can see using the Finetrax approach maybe ultimately the most practical option.
Here the timbers have the chairs as an integral part and are resin printed. The rails as you have said are code 40 and will slid down the pre printed timbers.
Finetrax turnouts and slips are totally compatible with some Templot designs. So to answer your question is yes, you can match plug track made component with Finetrax's (you may have to make some adjustment in plug track) to exactly match the Finetrax values however.
The issue if you go that route, is you can only make the closure rails and wing rails as separate items, meaning the true knuckle at the intersection is lost.

I hope this helps with your understanding.

If your contemplating two separate scales for Templot plug track, my advice would be start with the bigger scale. As that opens up more of Templot plug track to its true potential. From there you will have more experience to make your final choices.
cheers
Phil,

 

[mr_yogi]

@mr_yogi @James Walters

Hi,

Templot plug track is not a product. It's my hobby project shared with modelmakers. For a modelmaker anything is compatible with anything else if you choose to make it so.

It's proving a battle of wits to get this point across. Plug track is an optional addition to Templot intended for modelmakers who know what they are doing. It is still very experimental and an unfinished work-in-progress. N gauge means taking it to the bottom limit and is likely to be a challenge -- I haven't tried it myself.

You can adjust the chair dimensions in Templot to suit whatever bullhead rail you want to use.

If you 3D-print the chairs integral with the timbers, you can change the timber thickness in Templot so that the rail top matches the level of some other track, such as Peco or Finetrax or whatever. Or not, if you don't want to -- it might be a bit flimsy.

If you use separate plug-in chairs, they need thicker timbers, so you would put packing under other tracks if necessary to raise their rail top to the same level.

The advantage of the thicker timbers, apart from extra strength, is that dropper wire connections, switch-drive sliders (tie-bars), etc., can all be made integral with the track and hidden in the ballast, and provision for such is included in the plug track designs. But can optionally be omitted if not wanted, like everything else in plug track.

cheers,

Martin.

Thanks Martin,

I do appreciate this, and having read the other thread I know that there are some users on here who have played around with the plug track on n gauge. I was hoping to get a feel as to how successful and reliable the track can be in N. Certainly, from some of the photos the results look great, while some aspects of further tinkering will be required as issues occur. So I was also looking for some recommendations of what people have found to work well, with regard to the track, I notice there is already discussions around resin for example.

As I do not yet own a 3D printer/s, the choices of which will likely be a result of which gauge I choose to model in, I’m just angling for some reassurance that n-gauge is workable. The last thing I want is a layout with constant issues. As I said previously the majority of locos and rollingstock will be new RTR so hopefully that will bring a degree on consistency to the track requirements. But I do understand and expect a level of tinkering to get the desired results.

Many Thanks

Kristin

 

[Martin Wynne]

I was hoping to get a feel as to how successful and reliable the track can be in N .... I’m just angling for some reassurance that N-gauge is workable. The last thing I want is a layout with constant issues.

@mr_yogi

Hi Kristin,

As yet I don't think plug track has reached a stage where that can be answered. I haven't tried N gauge myself and I was surprised that others are doing so.

I thought it might be possible in 2FS, see:

https://www.2mm.org.uk/standards.htm

https://www.2mm.org.uk

using the latest high-resolution printers for the tiny chairs.

But for N gauge with deeper wheel flanges and wider flangeways I have my doubts. I think we need to wait and see what results others are finding and reporting from their experiments. Maybe from you?

Also, I'm far from convinced that resin-printed timbering is the way to go, with problems of curling and the difficulty in making accurate measurements of thickness and shrinkage. Admittedly the gauge-accuracy in N gauge probably isn't too demanding, but my instinct would be to go for FDM or laser-cut timbering, with separate chairs.

I know Wayne is getting good results with his 3D-printed Finetrax kits, but I do dislike the need for a rail break at the knuckle when using slide-in rails, and it makes it difficult to build complex formations.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[mr_yogi]

Hi Mr Yogi,
Firstly may we know your name? As its always better when you know who your talking too.

I am unsure what your main questions, are aimed at to be honest? Given your talking about two different scales.

In plug track terms you can model in N gauge (something like Terry and Martin) I personally don't modelled in that scale. My scale is 4 mm.

The key point here is, there are more options in 4 mm scale within plug track, simply because the physical size of the elements makes that possible. Therefore answers given to N scale questions, may not be exactly the same as answers given to other lager scales.

The most obvious difference is, in 4 mm scale not only can the chairs be made and fitted individually, but so can a representation of the keys.
In 4 mm scale you are most likely to be making the chairs either with loose jaws/keys. (Here the rail code 75BH drops in vertically and then the loose jaws are added to hold the chair and the rail together as per the prototype) Or with complete chairs where the chairs are slid along the rail, again code 75BH similar to the C&L type plastic chairs.

Unlike the C&L type chair which are typically glued to the timber/sleeper. Plug track as the name suggests plugs into a premade socket.
The advantage here is two fold,
1, no track gauges required,
2, track can be modelled very accurately as just like the prototype, it is dropped in vertically from above by using the plugs.

For chairs in 4mm scale, only resin printing has been found to be suitable to make the chairs with the accuracy to needed. Hence chairs are resin printed.

when it comes to timbers FDM printing, or laser cutting out parent material (be it wood or cardboard) are the best options, resin at this scale is not recommend as its been found to warp.

Because the thickness of the timbers, are determined by personal choice, IE the thickness of the parent material used, or the thickness of the FDM timbers chosen. The depth of the plugs within the setting of plug track is variable to match.

This is the point Martin is making about the thickness of the timbers. (it matters only if your mixing and matching with commercial track options.)

Re 2mm scale
Here the method of using plug track can be a bit different.
In plug track the option of separate timbers and chairs does still exist. ( there comes a point where the size may make this not very practical)
Or you can set plug track up to crate timbers with built in chairs. This is main difference between plug track and Finetrax because Finetrax does not use the plug concept, it has the chairs and the timbers built as one item.

Although I don't model in 2 mm scale I can see using the Finetrax approach maybe ultimately the most practical option.
Here the timbers have the chairs as an integral part and are resin printed. The rails as you have said are code 40 and will slid down the pre printed timbers.
Finetrax turnouts and slips are totally compatible with some Templot designs. So to answer your question is yes, you can match plug track made component with Finetrax's (you may have to make some adjustment in plug track) to exactly match the Finetrax values however.
The issue if you go that route, is you can only make the closure rails and wing rails as separate items, meaning the true knuckle at the intersection is lost.

I hope this helps with your understanding.

If your contemplating two separate scales for Templot plug track, my advice would be start with the bigger scale. As that opens up more of Templot plug track to its true potential. From there you will have more experience to make your final choices.
cheers
Phil,

Hi Phil,

Thanks for detailed and considered reply, there is a lot of useful into in there to think about.

Basically, I’d ideally model in N gauge, and from the other thread it’s obviously possible to some degree. As Martin’s reply alluded to, plug track is not a product that just works for every occasion and will require refining in order to get results. So I guess my main question was how viable is plug track likely to be for a full layout in N. In the hope of getting some feedback from others who have experimented with, and are able to share what they think might cause issues, and whether they think they are realistically solvable. For example, if things like double slips are difficult to implement in plug track the ability to pop in a kit from somewhere else is a great option.

I’ve been reading posts from this forum and watching videos on Templot for the past couple of years, since watching the Bexhill West introduction video. I initially contemplated using wooden/ coper sleepers with Templot templates in 00 instead of RTR Peco Code 55 N gauge, then after discovered plug track I thought that would be the better option. Finally discovering that people had successfully experimented with N gauge plug track, I decided that is what I would like to use. I still don’t have any practical experience with plug track, so I have gaps in my understanding, and every time I read something I generally find something useful which helps fill in the gaps or covers a point I’ve not previously considered. I think it’s a case of “you don’t know what you don’t know”.

As I mentioned in my previous post, for n gauge it would make sense to get a resin printer with a larger build plate, as it will be used for the sleepers. In contrast for 00/ 4mm I would need an FDM printer to produce the sleepers and a smaller (cheaper) resin printer to produce the plugs. I’m therefore keen to get as much info and feedback as possible before I get a printer.

Regard

Kristin

 

[Phil G]

For example, if things like double slips are difficult to implement in plug track the ability to pop in a kit from somewhere else is a great option.

Hi Kristin,

I guess the only comment I would make about commercial products is simply the price point. For example there would be very little in the cost of two double slips or an Alkaid resin printer for example.

As I mentioned in my previous post, for n gauge it would make sense to get a resin printer with a larger build plate, as it will be used for the sleepers. In contrast for 00/ 4mm I would need an FDM printer to produce the sleepers and a smaller (cheaper) resin printer to produce the plugs.

You also need to consider the plug track concept does provision for smaller part built timber or simple track sub assemblies, to be joined together. So although I can't disagree, a bigger build volume certainly makes it easier, its not exclusive.

Now I don't want that to be too misleading, as Finetrax for example do supply all the rails in there kits including pre shaped rails for both the vee and switch blades.

In 4 mm scale the Vee and switch blades are overcome by using Martin's brilliant FDM created filing jigs, which do everything except file the rail for you.

To be honest I am not sure the filing jigs, would scale down to code 40 rail? Maybe they will.
Has anybody tried that yet?

The other thing, which I now assume you understand is 2FS and N are not exactly the same thing. As Martin has said the larger size of the N standard, could have problems that's have not been encountered yet.

In all honesty, I would say if anybody wants to get the best out of the plug track concept. No matter what scale, You do have to think about having enough tools (Mainly types of 3D printers or a laser) to get the most out of it. I am not saying you can't get away with only one printer, its simply going to be limiting to all your options.

cheers
Phil,