Wagon repair depot plan

[Lion-Face]

Hi all

I have been planning a layout on Templot for a while now and would like some help in finalizing the layout, and the more technical side of track construction, timbering etc. I hope this is the right place for this kind of post.

I have a space of 1500x400mm for the scenic layout (5x1ft approx) and plan on building a wagon repair depot coming off from a double track running line.

OO-SF currently. I have a number of RTR models but am getting more into kit building, slowly, however not at this stage willing to go P4 which would involve serious modification of my stock. I like the idea I can run RTR models on my layout out of the box, and take them to the local club and run them there also, so OO-SF works for me. Although the challenge of P4 is tempting, I think that will be another layout in many more years to come.

I am intending on using 3D Plug track to construct the layout.

I'm from New Zealand, so do a lot of my learning of the UK prototype from websites and forums, which is great, but its nothing compared to living locally and experiencing it for myself.

The brief story behind the layout is it's based in the late 1960's Midland region. The wagon repair depot is on the opposite side of a double track running line from a TMD having had to be constructed separately due to space constraints. The TMD I plan on producing at a later date and is intended to be module that connects in with it. Was initially thinking owned by BR, but then had a thought of it being privately owned, which makes the separation from the TMD more plausible (in my head) and gives me the opportunity to have a privately owned small diesel shunter in the yard to operate which is probably overkill for a yard that small but I like the idea.

My first question is, is this layout reasonable? or at least somewhat reflective of what may have existed? I understand rule 1 of my railway I can run what I like, but I would at least like it to be believable, some basis in reality.

Is there any glaring issue with the track layout/arrangement?
How out there is my background story for it existing in the first place, or is there some other explanation/story which may be more believable and thus help set the theme or foundation of the WRD?

I know these are more general purpose questions, but I need to get that stuff down before I start asking the, in my mind, more difficult questions on timber lengths, spacing, shoving of things etc.

Thank you for your time.

Matthew Brown

 

[Rob Manchester]

Hello Matthew,
I have a similar view for a layout idea although the period would be earlier than your chosen date. I like the idea as it gives a chance to mix old and battered stock with recently repaired wagons. You can use an industrial loco or two to move the stock about. Plenty of opportunity for detailed scenic modelling and weathering too. I would probably do it in 7mm scale rather than 4mm but it depends on space.

Here is a google map of a repair depot of recent years - DB Cargo repairs - just look at the stock of wheels in the bottom left of the site !

Rob

 

[Lion-Face]

Hi Rob

Thank you for your reply.

I would love to do it in 7mm one day. A large reason I'm sticking to OO-SF is the amount of loco's and wagons I already have, and the ease of running them at the club and also at my home layout. Funds also limit the change along with the lack of O gauge readily available in New Zealand. But it does appeal to me and the extra layer of detail that can be modeled at that scale, one day

That link was great, it's maps and links like that which I just can't find in a normal internet trawl that can inspire, and the amount of wheels is crazy! I just don't see that sort of scale where I come from, so I can find it hard to fathom the scale of some operations.

As nobody has come up with anything against my proposed plan so far, I will proceed forward with it, detail out the plan further, tidy up the point timbers etc and post what I come up with.

 

[Phil G]

Hi Matthew, welcome to the forum
There is nothing wrong with your track plan, I would just point out however there a couple of your turnouts that are not quite following more prototypical practice, these are your C8 which would more typically be a B8 and your A7 which again would more likely be a B7. Which would also in fact make your plug track building a bit easier as well. That said, I guess if you look hard enough there is a prototype for everything. So don't feel obliged to change it on account of me.

The best way to get prototypical information is start with a google search or few. I just did a search on "UK wagon repair workshop in the 1960s" it does return some starting point info, if from there you can find a location you like. the next thing to try is a search of the NLS ordinance survey maps of the UK and Scotland. just type in NLS maps then the area your interested in. They have some great maps which can be used as direct overlays in Templot ( actually the track is the overlay, the map would be the background)
need any help let me know.
Cheers
Phil
PS don't hold it against me because I am a JAFA.

 

[Phil G]

Hi Matthew,
One thing I forgot to mention, which is to use the size key for the turnouts, as you create them, that's because Martin has set it up to follow prototypical practice IE as the angle size increases or decreases the switch will also move to follow the correct standard size, see attached photo.

cheers
Phil

 

[Lion-Face]

Hi Matthew, welcome to the forum
There is nothing wrong with your track plan, I would just point out however there a couple of your turnouts that are not quite following more prototypical practice, these are your C8 which would more typically be a B8 and your A7 which again would more likely be a B7. Which would also in fact make your plug track building a bit easier as well. That said, I guess if you look hard enough there is a prototype for everything. So don't feel obliged to change it on account of me.

The best way to get prototypical information is start with a google search or few. I just did a search on "UK wagon repair workshop in the 1960s" it does return some starting point info, if from there you can find a location you like. the next thing to try is a search of the NLS ordinance survey maps of the UK and Scotland. just type in NLS maps then the area your interested in. They have some great maps which can be used as direct overlays in Templot ( actually the track is the overlay, the map would be the background)
need any help let me know.
Cheers
Phil
PS don't hold it against me because I am a JAFA.

Hi Phil

Thank you for the welcome and the info.

I understood that B & C turnouts were most common, with A's being used in slow speed yards. Hence why the C size is used on the flowing running line through the layout, and the A's are used within the yard area. If I understand what your saying is that B should be used mostly with the others used only as required if a B doesn't work? I would like to know why one would be used over another, or if you can point me in the direction of where I can get that sort of information? I would rather learn and understand the fundamentals so I can better design in the first place than just be told a B would go there and a C would go there. I understand the basics of turnouts, but I don't understand their appropriate application.

Thank you for your suggestions. I have done a number of different searches as I don't want to ask questions on things that would come up quickly in a google search. I try to only start threads and ask questions as a last option if I have come across a dead end or can only unearth limited information. Also as I'm fairly new to this, I read a lot of information but have incorrectly interpreted it, as my turnouts have demonstrated

I have found and used the NLS maps for inspiration, but only as a set dressing and not an overlay for templot as I haven't been able to find anything small enough to suit what I'm intending on producing. I'm sure its out there, but I'm also not trying to replicate the prototype 1 to 1, although if something did fit, I'd happily look and see what I could do to adopt it.

Hi Matthew,
One thing I forgot to mention, which is to use the size key for the turnouts, as you create them, that's because Martin has set it up to follow prototypical practice IE as the angle size increases or decreases the switch will also move to follow the correct standard size, see attached photo.


cheers
Phil

Thank you for this, I didn't realize that it sized everything up or down prototypically. I would select a turnout size from the menu, A, B, C etc, then set the V angle to something that suited what I was going for or required. I assume, if possible, it is best to use that option you detail to set the turnout as close as possible then tweak from there?

Once again, thank you for your information and time, I really appreciate it, even if you are JAFA

 

[Phil G]

If I understand what your saying is that B should be used mostly with the others used only as required if a B doesn't work? I would like to know why one would be used over another, or if you can point me in the direction of where I can get that sort of information?

Hi Matthew,
No I was not saying B switch's are more commonly used, (although "A5" to say "B8" are the most common range of sizes on models, as there is almost always a space constraint on a model layout. C and D switches with 10 to 14 angles, are the more common on real railway mainlines.

What I meant and I think you have seen this now, is there is a relationship between switch size and turnout angle. What actually determines the selection on the prototype is the speed permitted over that part of the line, (the bigger the turnout the faster a train can traverse it safely) that does not just mean a single turnout, but could be more a complex setup such as a double junction. Having determined the traversing speed, the best sizes will become more obvious.

As a rule of thumb, a railway would look for the lowest cost solution that was still fit for purpose.

Again generally speaking smaller turnouts are a lower cost solution, both in terms of manufacture and maintenance, so will be the go to option as long as they meet the speed requirements of that part of the line.

The big advantage of Templot, especially if your also looking to use plug track, is you can be much more prototypical if you want to be.(space permitting of course)
cheers
Phil
By the way in truth I am a dilute JAFA as I was born in Stockport UK.

 

[Lion-Face]

Hi Matthew,
No I was not saying B switch's are more commonly used, (although "A5" to say "B8" are the most common range of sizes on models, as there is almost always a space constraint on a model layout. C and D switches with 10 to 14 angles, are the more common on real railway mainlines.

What I meant and I think you have seen this now, is there is a relationship between switch size and turnout angle. What actually determines the selection on the prototype is the speed permitted over that part of the line, (the bigger the turnout the faster a train can traverse it safely) that does not just mean a single turnout, but could be more a complex setup such as a double junction. Having determined the traversing speed, the best sizes will become more obvious.

As a rule of thumb, a railway would look for the lowest cost solution that was still fit for purpose.

Again generally speaking smaller turnouts are a lower cost solution, both in terms of manufacture and maintenance, so will be the go to option as long as they meet the speed requirements of that part of the line.

The big advantage of Templot, especially if your also looking to use plug track, is you can be much more prototypical if you want to be.(space permitting of course)
cheers
Phil
By the way in truth I am a dilute JAFA as I was born in Stockport UK.

I do understand now, it took me a few attempts at reading and re-reading but yes sinking in, little slow down south Thank you very much! I will revisit my plan and tweak a few turnouts, see how I go and post up the results when I am done.