Copper Clad & Vero Pins (also Ply & Rivet) - pin/rivet spacing?

[polybear]

Hello,
There's a strong possibility that I'll be using the C/Clad & Vero Pin method to construct Turnouts; is there any accepted norm as regards spacing of the Pins (or Rivets - as Ply & Rivet is a similar principle)? By this I mean is it usual to pin/rivet every timber, or perhaps every other timber? Obviously there will be certain areas where pins/rivets at every timber will be justified/required - in particular those around the common crossing.

Thanks
Brian

 

[Rob Manchester]

Brian,
How are you going to attach the rail to the copperclad if there isn't a vero pin ? In ply/rivet track every sleeper/timber has rivets for soldering the rail to. Surely the idea of the vero pins is to raise the rail above the copperclad surface - if you don't have a rivet there will be a gap.

Rob

 

[polybear]

Hi Rob,
Yes, the pin is to lift the rail; as all sleepers are bonded down to the track bed they won't be able to move in relation to each other. All sleepers, including those not fitted with pins and soldered would be fitted with cosmetic half chairs which would also provide a degree of support and location on those not fitted with pins. By fitting a pin on, say, every other sleeper (subject to their location & needs) would still lift the rail.
All thoughts & opinions welcome.....

Cheers,
Brian

 

[Steve_Cornford]

Hi Brian,
Is this bullhead or flat bottom rail?

How will you represent slide chairs?
Cast brass or etched?

Are you building in-situ?

Steve

 

[polybear]

Hi Steve,
It's B/H; slide chairs using (maybe) Bill Bedford brass etches from the S4Soc. (basically rectangles of brass with a hole at one end to go over the rivet/pin) - the chair jaws could be cut from a plastic chair (or indeed a plastic slide chair used instead of brass, though I prefer the latter despite being less detailed).
It'll all be built (probably) in situ, though some areas that are less accessible could be built on the workbench.

Cheers
Brian

 

[Hayfield]

Brian

As a last hurrah to buying a FDM printer I am slowly building a ply and rivet turnout simply to test my soldering skills

Certainly as was the practice back in the old days to miss every other or even only solder one in 3 timbers, but this was to save material/money and the timbers not being soldered would either not be laid or ply/card timbers used in place of (very) expensive copperclad strip.

Looking at the cost of copperclad I would now use Exactoscale Plastic timbers or 60 thou plasticard everywhere copperclad timbers are not used, Simply for the strength of bond so chairs would not be dislodged when cleaning the trackwork, they would be fitted as half chairs as the rail is upright

As for slide chairs I would use a mixture of brass and plastic chairs, I do have some Bill Bedford etched slide chairs, I am not using them as they look like bits of brass plate.

Don't forget to gap the copperclad timbers both sides if they are double sided and prior to fitting them fill and sand back the isolation slots (well worth it if you are going to add chairs) as its far easier to do this without the rail getting in the way.

In short 1 in 3 except where the common crossing is, then 1 in 2 if not every timber if required

In fitting half chairs to copperclad timbers I would use 2 part epoxy or modern polymer like No Nails

Good luck

 

[Steve_Cornford]

Hi Brian,
I've found my small stash of S4Soc rivets and a part used BB slide chair etch.
I am quite happy to send them to you if you want to try them out with your pcb strip.
Steve

 

[Steve_Cornford]

Hi Brian,
Will you be going to the Uckfield exhibition this weekend?
Steve

 

[polybear]

Hi Brian,
I've found my small stash of S4Soc rivets and a part used BB slide chair etch.
I am quite happy to send them to you if you want to try them out with your pcb strip.
Steve

Hi Steve,
Many thanks for your kind offer - I already have both; the advantage of using veropins over rivets in c/clad sleepers is the head of the pin is smaller in diameter (by around half a mm compared to the 2mm rivets IIRC) thus making fitting half chairs easier. The downside of course is you do need to be that much more accurate with the drilling of the sleepers.
Unfortunately Uckfield would be quite a trek for me so I won't be attending, sadly.
Cheers,
Brian

 

[Steve_Cornford]

Could you print the turnout template onto overhead transparancy film, rail head centre lines & timber centre lines.
Then use double sided tape to stick your pcb timbers onto the plan, then turnover and you should be able to drill the holes with a fair degree of accuracy.
Steve

 

[Martin Wynne]

Could you print the turnout template onto overhead transparancy film, rail head centre lines & timber centre lines.
Then use double sided tape to stick your pcb timbers onto the plan, then turnover and you should be able to drill the holes with a fair degree of accuracy.
Steve

See: https://85a.uk/templot/archive/topics/topic_283.php

Martin.