Midland Railway Track Design

[Paratom]

Hi I am the one who made an inquiry with regards to commissioning someone to draw up a Templot plan of Matlock Bath. Thanks for all those who had some input into this. I have spent the last couple of days learning Templot and feel that I will be able to master building the track plan myself. I will be posting my track plan as I go along and would welcome any comments.

 

[Paratom]

I am planning on building a model of Matlock Bath in EM gauge to MR design. I'm just getting my head around the intricacies of track design and not being a track engineer makes the process even more baffling. I have not started doing the Templot plan for Matlock Bath but instead I have been playing around with the software to see if I can replicate Midland Railway practice. The one area that I find most challenging is the timber interlacing and I have had to go by with what is available online and has been published. For practise I drew up a plan relating to the attached photo but not all of it. It's Walting Street Junction in Cricklewood, as it was in July 1913. My planned period is around 1906 so maybe the track design here is more up to date. As you can see from my Midland track design png I have lengthened the check rails on the turnout roads. I would like to know if this standard practice or only applied to main lines and not sidings. The other two images I have attached, Capture1 and 2, demonstrate two different ways I have interlaced the timbers but which one is correct or maybe neither are. Would there have been sleepers spanning across the two turnouts. The Midland Railway sometimes used 14in wide sleepers on their points which I have done here. I forgot to use 9ft sleepers and 45ft sleeper spacing with wider sleepers at each end. Any comments will be welcomed and where I may have gone wrong.

 

[Phil O]

Sidings are usually laid using 2nd or even 3rd hand materials, so you would be using material that was around 10 or more years older than the period you wish to model. The chances of any of it being replaced would be fairly remote, unless either something failed or the area was subject to remodelling. Railways don't waste money on sidings, even the sleeper spacings are usually greater than running lines.

 

[Paratom]

Thanks Phil. I haven't found any evidence that the MR used larger sleeper spacing in sidings but that would make sense if you wanted to save money which will be easy to do in Templot. I will probably make the sleepers in the sidings look more used than the mainline ones if this was the case regarding 2nd and 3rd hand materials. One thing I have found out that I didn't know was the MR and probably other companies used 14in sleepers for some of the sleepers in points and cross overs. Difficult to replicate if your buying sleeper strip because I don't think anyone makes it that wide. I plan to laser cut all my timbers so it should not be an issue if I need them.

Thomas

 

[Hayfield]

Paratom

Well done, there will be some bits where you will require assistance, if you share and show your work as it develops I am certain there will be a few willing to assist

What I would suggest is that every now and them save the plan, as quite often you may go off in a direction that needs altering, its much easier to go back to a previous step and start again. Where the plan becomes complicated I suggest saving after every two or 3 turnouts/crossings. Its far easier to delete a file (weeks later) than have to rebuild a whole section

 

[Paratom]

Thanks. I think the bit I will need advice on will be the timber interlacing as there seems to be more than one way of doing it but which is the correct way will be the challenge. I have quite a bit of information I have downloaded from the the Midland Railway Study Centre but nothing on interlacing of sleepers. It's funny how as railway modelers we will indulge ourselves in the intricacies of building a model railway then take it to a generic model railway exhibition where a roundy roundy layout with 16.5 Peco track gets voted best layout of the show.

Thomas

 

[Phil O]

14 inch timbers tend to occur in complex formations such as diamonds, slips and tandems, where a lot of chairs are close together and won't fit on a 12 inch timber. The only one I have come across was in a half scissors at the centre of a 1 in 3.5 diamond, to hold the K crossing chairs. An ex GW formation.

A word on terminology, sleepers are under plain track, timbers are under turnouts and other switches and crossings. Note no points in permanent way. Points are for the signalling department.

 

[Stephen Freeman]

Scalefour (members only) sell laser cut 14ins sleeper strip, for those who are doing 7mm, Timbertracks does them.

 

[Phil O]

Timbertracks, do them in 4mm, too. I got some years ago, not yet needed to use them in anger.

 

[Stephen Freeman]

I am not sure what thickness the 4mm scale timbertracks ones are (I suspect thin), as I have only ever bought the 7mm ones from him. The Scalefour ones are thin, when I need scale thickness ones I get them from Tim Horn.

 

[Phil O]

I can't remember what the thickness was, but I would err, towards thin.

 

[Martin Wynne]

@Paratom

Hi Thomas,

Are you aware of this site about historic permanent way?

https://www.oldpway.info/index.html

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Paratom]

@Paratom

Hi Thomas,

Are you aware of this site about historic permanent way?

https://www.oldpway.info/index.html

cheers,

Martin.

Hi Martin thanks for that. I was aware of that site, unfortunately it does not have much information on MR track. Most of the information on MR track I have downloaded from the Midland Railway Study Centre which brings me to sleeper spacing. For 45ft rails you have a pre-set of 19 sleepers. Was this standard for most companies because in the detailed MR drawing I have attached it specifies 18. Not a problem as you have designed the software to customise the sleeper spacing and numbers which I have done.

 

[Martin Wynne]

Hi Martin thanks for that. I was aware of that site, unfortunately it does not have much information on MR track. Most of the information on MR track I have downloaded from the Midland Railway Study Centre which brings me to sleeper spacing. For 45ft rails you have a pre-set of 19 sleepers. Was this standard for most companies because in the detailed MR drawing I have attached it specifies 18. Not a problem as you have designed the software to customise the sleeper spacing and numbers which I have done.

@Paratom

Hi Thomas,

18 per 45ft is for straight track. 19 per 45ft on curves. But maybe not on the Midland? Each company had their own rules.

Similar to 25 per 60ft on curves.

Model railways tend to have more curved track in scenic areas than straight, so those are the Templot defaults. But easily changed to whatever you want. The setting is template-specific. Store a library template containing your custom settings for future use.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Rob Manchester]

Thanks Phil. I haven't found any evidence that the MR used larger sleeper spacing in sidings but that would make sense if you wanted to save money which will be easy to do in Templot. I will probably make the sleepers in the sidings look more used than the mainline ones if this was the case regarding 2nd and 3rd hand materials. One thing I have found out that I didn't know was the MR and probably other companies used 14in sleepers for some of the sleepers in points and cross overs. Difficult to replicate if your buying sleeper strip because I don't think anyone makes it that wide. I plan to laser cut all my timbers so it should not be an issue if I need them.

Thomas

Thomas,
If you are using thin sleeper/timber strip it is easy enough to cut your own from sheets/offcuts of ply. A new blade in a Stanley knife makes short work of it - just don't do it on the kitchen table

You won't need that much of the 14" stuff I suspect. I prefer thinner sleepers/timbers - it saves building up the ballast/weeds etc if you are modelling station areas / goods depots etc.

Rob

 

[Paratom]

That makes sense as the space widens on the outside of the curve. I will adopt 18 sleepers for my strait and use the default for my curves. You have been a great help.

Thomas

 

[Paratom]

Thomas,
If you are using thin sleeper/timber strip it is easy enough to cut your own from sheets/offcuts of ply. A new blade in a Stanley knife makes short work of it - just don't do it on the kitchen table

You won't need that much of the 14" stuff I suspect. I prefer thinner sleepers/timbers - it saves building up the ballast/weeds etc if you are modelling station areas / goods depots etc.

Rob

Thanks Rob. I plan to laser cut all of my track work so the different widths won't be a problem. Attached is one I did a while ago in the experimental stage. I should have laser cut with the grain going the other way.

Thomas

 

[Stephen Freeman]

Don't forget the articles in MRJ by Bob Essery

 

[Paratom]

Don't forget the articles in MRJ by Bob Essery

Thanks Stephen, I have looked at those articles. I now have information on how timbers were interlaced on crossings published by the LMS. I assume they would have adopted the same practice as the Midland Railway.

Thomas