Month long user, some basic questions

[Cal]

Hello,

Fairly new user here. Great bit of software. I'm here as a last resort as i either couldn't find answers or execute solutions based on my research. I have a few questions which i will document below.

1. Adjusting check rail

I know how to do this, but i'm struggling with a solution to extend it to the curved track below. Is there a way to merge 2 templates to become 1?

2. Shoving timbers on crossover

I've tried shoving timbers, lengthening and hiding outlines etc which worked to a degree but i've ended up with chair clashes. Looking for best advice and practises please for this example (i found a link on another post but the link was dead)

3. Bridging a gap

What is the correct process to cleanly bridge a gap such as this , so as not to produce any overlaps? (straight track)

4. Is it possible to combine 2 joined templates into one?

5. When 3D printing, do we export each template as a separate piece?

Thanks in advance

 

[James Walters]

Hi Cal,

Not sure if this helps with Q1. But, in the example below I extended the turnout over the plain track template, and then used the Real > adjust check rails... function to overlay what was required.
The plain track template could then be shortened accordingly.

Q2. Short answer, if you've got your head around the timber shoving dialogue and omitting timbers etc, then select a timber and click 'heave chairs on ...', this will allow you to omit specific chairs where you have conflicts.
I haven't the time just now to provide a more fulsome answer but it sounds as though you are almost there, this should be the missing link for you.

Q3. Just extent one to the next with the length tool, don't worry if the rails overlap slightly, in fact it helps if they do a bit to 'sight' the alignment. If I've mis-understood the question do please let me know.

Q4. There is no need to combine templates in 1 piece, there is always a better way of getting what you need.

Q5. Yes. The timbering base will be exported separately as one file, and the chairs as another. If using the loose outer jaw option, you'll need to export a file for the chair, and another for the loose outer jaw. You can select the chair options in the dxf/stl export settings under the chair plugs/sockets tab if you haven't previously selected the options under the Real menu.

I hope that's helpful. Let us know how you get on.

Best wishes,
James

 

[Martin Wynne]

@Cal @James Walters

Hi Cal,

Welcome to Templot Club.

And thanks to James for providing quick answers to all 5 questions.

I will try to answer each one separately in a bit more detail in 5 separate replies, and maybe make some video clips. Probably in separate topics.

But first just quickly on this:

5. When 3D printing, do we export each template as a separate piece?

No, not each template. But not usually the whole of any one template either. In fitting a track plan on the bed of an FDM printer or laser cutter, we create what is called a timbering brick containing parts of several templates. Bricks then clip together to create the full track plan.

With sockets in the timbers for the chairs which are printed separately on a resin printer. See James's video to explain this better:

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Martin Wynne]

@Cal

Hi Cal,

I have posted a reply to Q.3 at:

https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.php?threads/filling-a-gap-between-templates.931/

More replies later.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Martin Wynne]

@Cal

Hi Cal,

I have posted a video clip in reply to Q.1 at:

https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.php?threads/check-rails-on-plain-track.932/

More replies later.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Cal]

@Cal

Hi Cal,

I have posted a video clip in reply to Q.1 at:

https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.php?threads/check-rails-on-plain-track.932/

More replies later.

cheers,

Martin.

Many thanks Martin for taking the time to make these videos. I will check them out shortly. Thanks to everyone else for the replies also, i have parked it since to get a fresh perspective. I managed to sort out my issues with the timbering on crossovers, dont know if the methodology was correct but it chairs the way i hoped. Before attempting to start the 'bricking' process i've noticed a few issues which i'm unsure of...

What have i done wrong here? notice on the right side, the top chairs are floating off the timbers while the bottom ones are fine..

These 2 timbers are the same width, why is one set of chairs bigger than the other, and should i change this?

Is there a solution to these chairs, rather than to omit one?

And finally, why is this template the only one that has the (what im presuming to be webs) around it? No other templates show this.

Once i've sorted the above issues, i may attempt to do the check rail again, and then i think i'll be ready to start making bricks, which i'm really dreading. Thanks again for all your help and i'm proud of how far i have got!

 

[Martin Wynne]

What have i done wrong here? notice on the right side, the top chairs are floating off the timbers while the bottom ones are fine..

@Cal

Hi Cal,

Something very strange there with the timber numbering swapping sides. The only way to explain that (and the chairing error) is that those timbers have been twisted 180 degrees in the timber shoving?

Please can you attach your BOX file here so that I can see what's happening. Thanks.

Martin.

 

[Cal]

@Cal

Hi Cal,

Something very strange there with the timber numbering swapping sides. The only way to explain that (and the chairing error) is that those timbers have been twisted 180 degrees in the timber shoving?

Please can you attach your BOX file here so that I can see what's happening. Thanks.

Martin.

Thanks martin, hopefully i've attached the correct file. You are correct about the rotation, my reasoning for this was shortening/lengthening the times, as they get longer or shorter from the opposite side of the name, rotating it just meant that i could get it to the desired length at the correct side - probably the wrong way of achieving the result and ultimately caused more problems i thank you for taking the time to look at my file. Cheers !

 

[Martin Wynne]

my reasoning for this was shortening/lengthening the times

@Cal

Hi Cal,

To shorten or lengthen timbers at the opposite end, hold down the Shift key while clicking the buttons, or pressing S or L.

With the mouse actions, after changing the length, use the throw function.

Thanks for the BOX file, I will have a look at it.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Martin Wynne]

@Cal

Hi Cal,

Can you shed any light on how your timbers came to be these strange sizes?

In the process you have found a bug in Templot, so thanks for that. On joint sleepers Templot changes the chair from S1 to the wider S1J joint chairs if the sleeper is not 10 inches wide. The expectation is that would mean it is wider at 12" or sometimes 14". It didn't occur to me that anyone would make them narrower than 10", so I will get that fixed.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Cal]

@Cal

Hi Cal,

Can you shed any light on how your timbers came to be these strange sizes?


View attachment 9594


In the process you have found a bug in Templot, so thanks for that. On joint sleepers Templot changes the chair from S1 to the wider S1J joint chairs if the sleeper is not 10 inches wide. The expectation is that would mean it is wider at 12" or sometimes 14". It didn't occur to me that anyone would make them narrower than 10", so I will get that fixed.

cheers,

Martin.

Whoops, sorry for causing you some grief! The reasoning for the sizes you mentioned, and i'll try to keep it short, was to imitate Wayne's british finescale. Initially i had wanted to use templot to perfectly imitate waynes track, with good geometry from templot, extract the dxf to CAD whereby i am making my whole entire layout, and use the track geometry to correct the platform profiles and ensure the track had enough space etc. I was then going to design jigs/spacers/adapters to which would then help me lay Waynes track, correctly in relation to the other objects. As i got more into templot i kind've started thinking about just actually 3d printing the track base, as the clip and splint functionality would keep the tracks correct, and once correctly aligned in CAD i could then further add parts to further aid in positioning. i kinda just cracked on with doing it that way, however i might start again and just do the first idea. Hopefully that clears that up?

 

[Martin Wynne]

Hopefully that clears that up?

@Cal @Wayne Kinney

Hi Cal,

Not really.

Can I gently point out that the purpose of Templot is to build track which accurately replicates the prototype as far as possible? Real sleepers are 10" wide, and setting them correctly at 10" wide won't make any difference to the track geometry.

I believe Wayne's kits are made at 2mm/ft (1:152.4), not UK N scale (1:148), which may explain why you thought their sleepers are narrower than 10"?

If you do want narrower sleepers, it would be better to leave them at 10" and change in Templot to the smaller scale N-NMRA (1:160) instead of UK N. Templot will then know what's happening, and the chair plugs and sockets will be a smaller size for a better fit in the sleepers.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Martin Wynne]

@Cal

Hi Cal,

It would be very unusual for sleepers to be shortened as you have them here:

That would make a lot of work for the p.w. gang, and the chairs would be too close to the end of the sleeper to provide a secure fixing and proper support from the ballast.

The usual arrangement is to move them along as needed so that they can be interlaced, like this:

Sometimes that requires a sleeper to be twisted slightly (but not 180 degrees!).

Martin.

 

[Cal]

@Cal @Wayne Kinney

Hi Cal,

Not really.

Can I gently point out that the purpose of Templot is to build track which accurately replicates the prototype as far as possible? Real sleepers are 10" wide, and setting them correctly at 10" wide won't make any difference to the track geometry.

I believe Wayne's kits are made at 2mm/ft (1:152.4), not UK N scale (1:148), which may explain why you thought their sleepers are narrower than 10"?

If you do want narrower sleepers, it would be better to leave them at 10" and change in Templot to the smaller scale N-NMRA (1:160) instead of UK N. Templot will then know what's happening, and the chair plugs and sockets will be a smaller size for a better fit in the sleepers.

cheers,

Martin.

Hi again Martin,

There was a discussion between you and Wayne here in which Wayne said "My N Gauge Finetrax range is 'based' on the templot 'N' 2.06mm/ft template. I have made a change to asymetric flangeway clearences and also shortened timber length." which is the profile present on my BOX file. The 'weird' non prototypical timber presets that you mentioned are dimensioned to be what Wayne told me his sleeper sizes are . I thought i was going mad and it took me a long time to find that forum post, but i knew there was definitely a reason for choosing that profile. In that post you also discuss with Wayne adding a profile of his track into Templot, is this still a plan?

I believe that's what i've achieved anyway, which is what i wanted, and its noted about adjusting sleeper lengths, I may just re-do all points or reset the timbering. If i verify with Wayne what the spacing is between timbers and then mate templot match, then i believe for my use case il be sorted, and achieved what i set out to do.

Thanks for the help/tips

 

[Phil O]

Hi Cal,

The 1st pair of short timbers, next to the last long timber, is also likely to be a long timber. There's virtually no room to pack that turnout road timber.

 

[Martin Wynne]

Hi again Martin,

There was a discussion between you and Wayne here in which Wayne said "My N Gauge Finetrax range is 'based' on the templot 'N' 2.06mm/ft template. I have made a change to asymetric flangeway clearences and also shortened timber length." which is the profile present on my BOX file. The 'weird' non prototypical timber presets that you mentioned are dimensioned to be what Wayne told me his sleeper sizes are . I thought i was going mad and it took me a long time to find that forum post, but i knew there was definitely a reason for choosing that profile. In that post you also discuss with Wayne adding a profile of his track into Templot, is this still a plan?

I believe that's what i've achieved anyway, which is what i wanted, and its noted about adjusting sleeper lengths, I may just re-do all points or reset the timbering. If i verify with Wayne what the spacing is between timbers and then mate templot match, then i believe for my use case il be sorted, and achieved what i set out to do.

Thanks for the help/tips

@Cal @Wayne Kinney

Hi Cal,

The discussion with Wayne is at:

https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.php?posts/4692

Templot doesn't support asymmetric flangeways, so for use with Finetrax kits there is no need to change the standard UK N gauge pre-set in Templot. Which sets the track gauge at 9.0mm, crossing flangeway 0.85mm, scale 1:148.

This is a B-6 turnout with regular-type V-crossing:

Using the ruler tool in Templot shows the dimension across the turnout timbers at 138.17 mm.

This exactly matches the dimension given on Wayne's Finetrax template:

I suggest that you use the UK N gauge pre-set in Templot. There is no need to change anything for use with Finetrax.

cheers,

Martin.