German turnout

Also it seems a bit strange for them to have machined flares if the plain check rails have bent flares?
That is a common practice also in the Netherlands and some parts of Poland, for Belgium and France i am not sure.
When the check rails needs to be longer it is also machined on more recent turnouts in the Netherlands, for the other country's i mentioned i am not sure, sorry.

Best
 
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Gregor

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Germany
Hello

I lasered my first turnout today. A few sleepers are still removed and replaced by PCB to solder the rails on it. I hope that it works as I have imagined.

To laser the part still needs some work. The DXF file needs to be edited with a CAD program.

Next will be the rails...

Cheers

Gregor


4241E0F2-7A7D-4E06-B006-7591CA3ED1FE.jpeg
 
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Gregor

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Germany
Hello.

I made a few mistakes while editing the dxf file! But I noticed that only in the final product.

I have forgotten a few separations and the recess for the actuator mechanism. I have ironed out the errors and again new Ge LaserTools. The rails are only put on, but already finished.

It is really great to work with your program Martin. I also like the radio integration.

Greetings
Gregor

3D48B7F1-FED3-4F35-98E7-B7866C570FF7.jpeg
+
 
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Martin Wynne

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Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email.

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Hi Gregor,

That's looking very impressive. I'm always interested to see what folks do with Templot. :)

Recently you and Igor have taken Templot in directions I would never have imagined (and know little about).

Are those timbers the correct width for your prototype? They look very narrow to UK eyes.

What is the advantage of laser cutting a full timber base rather than sticking individual timbers on a paper template in the traditional way? It's becoming more popular in the UK too as a means of pointwork construction. But it always seems to me to cause more work than it saves, and it certainly consumes more plywood.

cheers,

Martin.
 
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Gregor

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Location
Germany
Hello Martin,

Thank you very much.

It is interesting how different the railway is. Different gauges, the arrangement of the sleepers and their distances...... I have difficulties to find my way with all the names of the turnouts in templot!
But I think that the designation A with the EW190 is 1:9 and the EW300, EW500 etc. are the corresponding C, D etc.

As for the sleepers, they are 260mm wide (10.236 inches). Some are only 250mm. The spacing of the sleepers on the turnouts also varies. I bought a book with drawings of turnouts from the time of the German Reichsbahn, i.e. until about 1990.

I am attaching a picture.

D6C02E9B-B469-41E0-9179-86A231D96D5C.jpeg


Certainly you need more plywood and the preparation takes more time. But they can be reproduced more quickly if you need the same ones.

Many people shy away from building them themselves, which was also the case for me until a few months ago. But once you start, you realise that you don't have to buy off the shelf and you can create all the geometries yourself....

Your programme is really great. Unfortunately, there's nothing like it here.
I would think of S21, which I used to plan my station. Unfortunately, development was discontinued years ago. Then I came across Templot...
It does require a few adaptations to the German track, but templot is simply unsurpassed for self-construction.

The turnout I constructed with Templot is very much shortened. As far as geometry and optics (sleeper position) are concerned, there is nothing like it in TT from any manufacturer. The turnouts are roughly equivalent to the American or English ones.

We read each other again...

many greetings
Gregor
 
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Gregor

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Location
Germany
Hello Martin,

me again. Here are a few pictures of the turnout. Only the colour is missing...

A small mistake has crept into the designation: It should be 9,46°!

Have a nice Sunday and best regards

Gregor

w1.jpg

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roythebus

Member
Location
Kent
Excellent progress there. What gauge are you using? HO or TT? Are you going to use anything to represent the rail fixing to the sleepers?

Hervorragende Fortschritte dort. Welches Messgerät verwenden Sie? HO oder TT? Wirst du irgendetwas verwenden, um die Schienenbefestigung an den Schwellen darzustellen?
 
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Excellent progress there. What gauge are you using? HO or TT? Are you going to use anything to represent the rail fixing to the sleepers?
The turnout I constructed with Templot is very much shortened. As far as geometry and optics (sleeper position) are concerned, there is nothing like it in TT from any manufacturer.


However i am following your progress with great interested.
Well done if i may say so.
But i need to get something off my chest, i hope i will not offend you.
Your points are not sharp enough in my eyes.
However keep in mind that my turnouts are 1:15, there where some experiments from 1:6 quickly to 1:7.5 moving on to 1:10 ect
We all learn, i made some mistakes.
Regarding your point work:
Instead of bending your curved and your strait stock rail i would suggest to file/sand down your points more.
I hope the pictures can and will illustrate what i am trying to tell:
20210517_175905.jpg
20210517_180404.jpg

20210517_180441.jpg

As you can clearly see i did sand the wrong side, but he it works!!
For the next experiments i will make it a "mirror" image.
I hope the nxt drawing helps to explane:
20210517_180319.jpg

Yes i did not make a good drawing, sorry about that, if you dont understand i will make a professional better one.
I think you will get it, if not ask please, i would be glad to be at any help.
Anyway
Number 1 is my first attempt for a point rail, this is something i am going to change.
My number two will be my next attempt..
The xxx's are filed/sanded away, keep in mind i use 2mm by 10mm alu strip.
Sinds we are neighbours we can learn from each other regarding track building as prototypical.
I encourage you to look at my other posts/pics for ideas and real life pictures, our tracks are the ~~same, mostly!

I hope this was helpful:
With best regards Igor
 
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Gregor

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Germany
Hello

Thank you

@roythebus I am building in TT.
Small irons are not planned yet. But what is not can still be.


@Justme Igor I see what you mean. Switchpoints and Stockrail are both filed! Due to the use of flat bottom rails, this is only possible to a limited extent. At some point the metal between head and foot breaks.
The filing on the inside of the switchpoits would also not correspond to the prototype.

many greetings
Gregor
 
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Gregor

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Germany
Hello Martin.

I'll attach my questions here. What is the difference between the points? I haven't quite understood that yet!
BH stands for Bull Head and FB for Flat Bottom. So far it should be correct?! Do they also differ in geometry? Which one should I use for my planning?

Thanks a lot

Regards
Gregor
 
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Martin Wynne

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Hello Martin. ... ... Which one should I use for my planning?
@Gregor

Hi Gregor,

I'm, sorry, I haven't the faintest idea. I know nothing at all about German track geometry. :(

Someone else on here may be able to help.

All the pre-sets in Templot are based on UK track designs. If you want something else, it can be created as a custom template. But to do that you need to have access to the appropriate track data and drawings for your prototype.

See this page for details of the types of switches and crossings in Templot:

https://85a.uk/templot/companion/real_track.php

The Templot pre-sets include switch geometry for both bullhead (BH) and flat-bottom (FB) UK switch designs:

switch_list.png


The usual model filing for the points in bullhead rail looks like this. The filing on both sides runs out at the "planing length". The position of this is marked on the templates as "stock gauge". A bend is put in the point rail (blade) at that position to return the running edge to a straight line:
2_010613_550000000.png


cheers,

Martin.
 
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Gregor

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Germany
Hello Martin,

Thank you for your answer.

I was only interested in the difference between bra size A-F and FB size SA-SF semi-curved.

But if I understand correctly, I can plan with BH. If I change the track settings to code 70 or other. Enter head and foot dimensions and change to Flat Bottom?!

I definitely have to adjust the sleepers all by hand.

Cheers
Gregor
 
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Martin Wynne

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Enjoy using Templot?
Thanks.

Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add
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@Gregor

Hi Gregor,

If I had to guess (which is all it is, a guess) I would think the curved FB BS-113A switches might be the best match to German designs:

fb_curved_switches.png


After selecting one of them, the F5 mouse action will swap to the different sizes as you change the turnout size.

Alternatively, there are some USA-style 11ft and 16ft-6in custom switches available for download:

https://85a.uk/templot/archive/topics/topic_1335.php

Follow the instructions there to convert them to TT. They might or might not match German switches.

cheers,

Martin.
 
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roythebus

Member
Location
Kent
Remember German TT is 1:120, not like English TT 1:100.

This is an interesting conversation. Maybe look in some old copies of the German magazine Modelbahn eisenbahn. they had some track articles over the years. I don't subscribe to it any more. Maybe ask the UK-based German Railway Society if they have any prototype track drawings?
 
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@Gregor
I have accumulated a lot of close up pictures from frogs point ect, mostly from The Netherlands and the Soviet Union around 1950.
Soviet (1920-1960) is what i am going to model and the Dutch railway was interested(1920-1950 and 1980-2000).
As i stated before our railroads are pretty much the same design, i am for 95% sure.
Before 1960 i am almost 99% sure.
Before 1945, more questions than answers:

If you are modelling a area before 1930, than the dutch railway will not help you, instead look for British railway? but this i am not really sure.
My knowledge about the German Empire regarding railroad is not much.
How ever there where efforts i thought between the Emperor and Lenin and Stalin.
I am sorry i am not able to help you with this time frame for your country, only with things I had a quick read on.
I also thought the British where involved heavy in the development in this time frame, after Lenin there where some changes i thought.
Mostly for the demand of freight, the building of coal wagons exploded in 1922-1925 and even that bad they had to order them in Poland in 1930-1932

Back to today.
The main changes in appearance thru the time frames is the height of the track, lengths and shape of the safety rails, incl the frogs.
Now add some engineers from different country's and you will see that there are all made for the demand of that particular line/country.
For my feeling is around 1970 in Europa (U.S.S.R around 1930's and the US of A around 1900's-1910's) the difference between commuting tracks and freight tracks really separate.
Trains are getting faster, longer, heavier and commuters want more comfort, both want to have more speed, etc.
How far you want to go in this subject?

If i compare pictures from Nuremberg tracks from around 1980 before they where replaced they look very similar to the Dutch track work.
I hope this helps?

Anyway what time frame are you modelling btw and more important how far you want to take it into detail.
Maybe i can give you a better and more suited answer instead of a global answer.
For rail cross sections i can not be of assistance. BH FH ect.
I can imaging TT scale will be indoors and at 1 meter high, so details are going to be very important?

With best regards, Igor

Ps The corner of the Chinese/Japanese tracks are a different world with a second look
 
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Gregor

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Germany
Hello Igor,

I build in the period until 1990 of the German Reichsbahn. Actually, my station is finished. The problem is the lack of prototypical turnouts. There are Tillig, Kühn and TTFiligran, unfortunately all do not fit together. Code 83, code 70 and 60 are used by them. Filigran does have them, but many shy away from the effort of installation.

My layout can be set up variably. I have different legs for the 1m and 1.30m height of the system.I would like to plan and build the fiddle yard with my own turnouts, as I can build more flexibly that way.

I'll add a few more pictures....
 

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I think you must decide to one code and start from there to build your own.
I can help you with close up pics from prototypical track.
Tell me what you want.
Our railroads are the same except:
In the Netherlands if i am not mistaking from 1:9 and up the frogs are full cast, below that they are in several pieces or: in exception heavily used fiddle yards like the "kijfhoek" nearby Rotterdam and "den Haag" Google on youtube: "Kijfhoek" and be surprised.
Look in my profile of what i downloaded of pics from Amsterdam CS.
Those tracks where replaced i thought just before 1990! jackpot for you.

For the German Reichsbahn i thought it was from 1:8 and up for full manganees casted frogs, but i am not sure.
Regarding guardrail ect we are the same regarding shapes and iron bars(no track is used anymore sinds 1975-1980?)
More toward the Polish border (mostly "old" eastern Germany) there is a change in rail and frogs.
I hope this year we can go to Poland again, there is a station with old tracks i want to photograph(Between Ribnik and Gliwitcha somewhere) its Soviet track meting European track.

What does this has to do with me you ask....
To point out some similarities and some differences.
Whitch station are you building? a copy or a own?
And where?
If my history is correct the wall fell in 1989.
Big differences in track!
In case of west Berlin, you did a nice job on your turn out.
But practice makes it perfect.
Yes i am a bit of a purist, sorry, that does not mean you have to be to!

With best regards Igor from the Netherlands
 
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Gregor

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Germany
Hello Martin, hello Igor

it takes a bit of work, but works to create German-style turnouts!
TOP...

The most common form of the turnouts of the Reichsbahn was the 1:9. Smaller with 1:7.5 and 6.6 there were also, but these rather rare.
The high-speed switches go up to 1:14 or 18.5. As for the check rails and wing rails, there was both possible, bent or machined and that also mixed.

I have a link here, on the page are a few pictures of turnouts.....


Thank you both.

Greetings Gregor

Kreuzung 1-6.jpg
 
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