What printer should I get ?

[Hayfield]

Following on from both the weekend Scaleforum and last nights zoom meeting thoughts have been going on in my head as to whether to buy a printer and if so what type ?

First off, all the detailed discussions go right over my head, so to start off with the main criteria is ease of use,

Looking at the printer James had at Scaleforum, for cheapness resin seems to fit the bill, but could I handle all the setting up adjustments, then there is all the UV and cleaning that has to be undertaken

Would a FDM machine be an easier, therefore better machine/system for me to use ? If so what are good budget machines ?

Secondly it seems most of us in the group have resin printers, so for the benefit of the group would it be better to buy a FDM machine and be a group source for bases, jigs etc ?

I could learn the basics of an easier system to use and in the future migrate into resin printing as well

At the moment I would really like to try out the plug track system, with a standard turnout both in 4mm and 7mm scale. It was intermated at Scaleforum that there are a couple of people able to offer printing services, any thoughts on who they are please.

I am hoping I have used the correct terminology

 

[Martin Wynne]

@Hayfield @Paul Boyd @James Walters

Hi John,

I've been expecting this question and it's both easy and difficult to answer.

Here are the easy answers:

To make the chairs get one of these resin printers. I've got one, James has got one, several others have ordered one. Any problems and we can help you and talk you through the problems:

https://www.geeetech.com/alkaid-lcd-light-curing-resin-3d-printer-p-1210.html

That's £90 delivered in the UK. Click Ship To at the top of the page, then set UK, GB pounds, Save, to see the UK 2-day delivered prices.

It's pretty much a no-brainer to get started if you are new and hesitant about the whole thing. James will be posting a review video about them in the next few days. I predict it will cause a rush for them, and they may go out of UK stock.

For the chairs there isn't really any option but to make them yourself using your own resin printer. It's doubtful that a commercial firm would do a good job on what we need, and it's likely to be very expensive.

---

For the timbering bases you have a choice of making them yourself using an FDM printer, or sending the files from Templot to a commercial firm to laser-cut them in plywood. I don't know anything about that, but others here do and can advise about sources and suppliers. It needs to be in 3mm plywood which is probably thicker than they usually expect and more expensive.

To make the timbering bases yourself get one of these FDM printers. I've got one. Any problems and I can help you and talk you through the problems:

https://kingroon.com/collections/kingroon-3d-printer/products/official-kingroon-kp3s-3d-printer

That's £122 but I don't know about delivery charges from the EU warehouse. Click the button for EU warehouse.

There are currently 4 left in stock on Amazon at £170 if you prefer to order from a known UK source:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08CZD7ZLC

Be aware that it's smaller than most at 180mm square, but you can still do most 4mm turnouts in only 2 clip-together sections. In 7mm it would be probably 3 clip-together sections.

---

The difficult questions are all about spending a bit more and then there are dozens of different models and sizes and specs and options and quality and whether it's ready-to-go or a kit of parts. With 100s of review videos on Youtube claiming this one or that is the best. It's a minefield to find your way through, and none of them are trying to make model railway track.

But for the two printers I've linked above, I've got them here, I've made good track on them, and I can help you get started.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Hayfield]

Martin

Thank you very much and I would probably go for a UK distributer,

Do you think I will be able to start printing bases without too much trouble not being very computer savey, I think the resin printer may be a step too far for me

Secondly what else do I need to buy please

I have found this on Amazon, is it worth having a look at it ? or just use what we know works

Finally how do I create files to print timbers and chairs please

 

[Phil O]

Hi John,

I think that you have forgotten to add the link.

 

[LassUnsSchaun]

...

Finally how do I create files to print timbers and chairs please

Wait for James Walters / Bexhill West step-by-step video, which he planned to do

 

[Martin Wynne]

There are currently 4 left in stock on Amazon at £170 if you prefer to order from a known UK source:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08CZD7ZLC

There were earlier. Only 2 left now.

Do I get any commission?

Martin.

 

[Hayfield]

Hi John,

I think that you have forgotten to add the link.

Sorry, I was interrupted by someone scamming one of my friends emails. The initial email was very innocent and one you would expect from a friend, then a strange request, thankfully only opened in my phone.

https://store.creality.com/uk/produ...MI0ojvx6nNgQMVzdrtCh20WgcFEAYYCCABEgLGBfD_BwE

 

[Hayfield]

I have a birthday in just over a month so will ask for Amazon vouchers, so I have some time to sort myself out so I know both what machine to get and what else I need to buy and arrange to start from the word go

 

[Martin Wynne]

There were earlier. Only 2 left now.

Do I get any commission?

Martin.

Very odd.

There were 4, then 2, now it's 4 again. Is this just a trick to get you to make a quick decision?

Martin.

 

[Paul Boyd]

Very odd.

There were 4, then 2, now it's 4 again. Is this just a trick to get you to make a quick decision?

Martin.

Highly likely! When I looked at mine before buying it, there was a countdown to the end of the offer price which ended in I think about 1.5 hours. When I looked again on another day to actually place the order there was the 1.5hr countdown again. Very obviously trying to get you to make a quick decision! I’m aware of those tricks which is why I didn’t immediately buy it the first time I looked.

 

[Martin Wynne]

Sorry, I was interrupted by someone scamming one of my friends emails. The initial email was very innocent and one you would expect from a friend, then a strange request, thankfully only opened in my phone.

https://store.creality.com/uk/produ...MI0ojvx6nNgQMVzdrtCh20WgcFEAYYCCABEgLGBfD_BwE

@Hayfield

Hi John,

That's the classic original Ender printer which many of the others are based on, or are direct clones. It comes as a kit of parts.

I would caution against it for plug track because of the single-sided Z-screw. My Neptune 2 is also essentially a clone of the Ender. I found it was impossible to get consistent thickness of timbering across the full width of the bed because of the single-sided Z drive. To get the consistent results which you saw at Scaleforum, I have removed entirely the wheels on the right-hand column and levelled the bed to suit. This means it is operating as a cantilever design for which it was not intended -- the X cross-bar isn't really strong enough or fixed solidly enough at the left hand end. It works, but only if I don't so much as breathe on it while running.

Also to get the string-free printing which you saw it is necessary to use aggressive retraction settings. This soon caused the bowden tube connections to fail on the Neptune and I had to replace them and add extra grip ties. It's working, but I'm constantly watching it and expecting it to fail again.

I suggest you need a printer which either has a double Z-screw (and preferably a top synchronising belt between them), or is designed as a cantilever design from the start. And also one with a direct-drive extruder to eliminate bowden tube problems and provide reliable retraction.

You also need a printer with manual levelling -- the so-called auto-levelling function is no such thing, it simple compensates for any unevenness in the bed to ensure the print sticks to it.

The little Kingroon printer which I linked to ticks all these boxes. It's smaller than we would like (but usable), hence the low price.

The only box it doesn't tick is belt-tensioners. But it's almost impossible to find a printer which has everything we need and good reviews. The Neptune 4 looks good, but more expensive. The larger versions of the Neptune 3 might be preferable as they have manual bed-levelling screws. The base Neptune 3 version doesn't.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Hayfield]

Martin

Thank you very much and the perfect reply, I had almost made my mind up to use the same one as you and this reply has made up my mind, it will be my next birthday present.

Being not very tech savey, what else do I need to buy to get started please. I have a computer and that's all

 

[Steve_Cornford]

Hi John,
I would be quite happy to send you some resin printed chair rafts to use once you get started on the FDM track bases.
Steve

 

[Martin Wynne]

Martin

Thank you very much and the perfect reply, I had almost made my mind up to use the same one as you and this reply has made up my mind, it will be my next birthday present.

Being not very tech savey, what else do I need to buy to get started please. I have a computer and that's all

@Hayfield

Hi John,

The only thing you absolutely need is a reel of filament. Don't bother with the small sample of filament which comes with the printer, it is usually poor quality plain white PLA.

If you intend also to print the filing jigs, I suggest using the eSun brown or grey PLA Plus filament:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07FQ75QG2

The price goes up and down with the weather -- choose a good day to order. Some others are a bit less expensive and better colours for track, but don't seem to resist filing quite so well.

One reel will do a lot of printing. All the bases for a small layout and a few filing jigs too.

The printer comes with a flexible tinplate bed. I'm not keen on those and prefer to use a rigid glass bed instead. You can buy them with nice smooth ground edges, but I suspect any ordinary piece of window glass would do (for PLA it needs to be only 50 degs C). If you do use plain glass, you will need some of these glue-sticks too (not ordinary school glue-sticks, these are PVP adhesive):

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08D6PJTWN

This 180mm glass bed has a special coating, so probably doesn't need the glue:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0CDSPX9V7

With all Chinese metal-cased mains equipment I use one of these, but that's up to you and you may already have one:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000RZDNZM

Here's an idea of what you can fit in 180mm square -- 4 prints to do this much:

You will also need a shelf bracket, fixed upside down above the printer:

The kitchen sponge and garden tie wire is to clean any dust off the filament if it hasn't been used for a while.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Martin Wynne]

@Hayfield

p.s. John,

Here is my previous report on the Kingroon printer:

https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.php?threads/3d-printers-fun-with-fdm.277/post-6398

Martin.

 

[Hayfield]

@Hayfield

p.s. John,

Here is my previous report on the Kingroon printer:

https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.php?threads/3d-printers-fun-with-fdm.277/post-6398

Martin.

Martin

Again thank you

Do I also need a memory stick or lead from the computer

 

[Martin Wynne]

@Hayfield

more p.s.

To fit the C-switch back filing jig within 180mm, the 20mm distance to the blade tip needs to be reduced to 10mm. I will add that option in the settings.

The jig will fit as it stands, but only if it is rotated 45 degrees on the bed. Which would work, but the filing face may not be as smooth as when printed square-on.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Hayfield]

@Hayfield

more p.s.

To fit the C-switch back filing jig within 180mm, the 20mm distance to the blade tip needs to be reduced to 10mm. I will add that option in the settings.

The jig will fit as it stands, but only if it is rotated 45 degrees on the bed. Which would work, but the filing face may not be as smooth as when printed square-on.

cheers,

Martin.

Martin

Thanks

I think first off I need to learn how to print something easy, simple track base ?

 

[Martin Wynne]

Martin

Again thank you

Do I also need a memory stick or lead from the computer

@Hayfield

Hi John,

It uses a little Micro SD card instead of a proper USB stick. You get one with the printer which you can use, but you might have a spare one from your camera you prefer to use instead. Or get a new one. The ones supplied are typically not brilliant quality. They are fiddly things to use, and I have an adaptor thingy to use a large SD card instead, but that's optional of course.

Or you can use a USB lead instead, to control the printer from your computer, in which case you don't need the card. There is a USB lead supplied, but it's not very long, so you would need to have the printer and computer quite close together for several hours while printing. You could get a longer lead of course, but again that's optional.

Here is a review of the Kingroon printer not from me -- ignore the stuff about levelling, slicing and getting started -- we will talk you through doing it our way for plug track.

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/kingroon-kp3s

Martin.

 

[Martin Wynne]

Martin

Thanks

I think first off I need to learn how to print something easy, simple track base ?

@Hayfield

Hi John,

Don't worry -- you get the printer, we'll get you started.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Martin Wynne]

.
For anyone reading this and wanting something bigger, I suggest the Neptune 3 Plus:

https://www.3djake.uk/elegoo/neptune-3-plus

Which is just under £300 with free UK delivery from Austria. (Not available on Amazon.)

Please note this is a suggestion based on the published information, not a recommendation -- I haven't got one!

Note that it must be the Plus model, not Pro or Ultra or Super or anything else. That's because it seems to be the only one with manual levelling screws in addition to the auto-levelling. The build area is a lot bigger than most at 320 x 320 mm. Dual Z-axis top synchronised, and direct-drive extruder.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Martin Wynne]

Please note this is a suggestion based on the published information, not a recommendation -- I haven't got one!

@Hayfield @Phil O

I have now:

And yet another pair of blue snips. Neptune 3 Plus.

It's big. It takes up half the space in my computer den. It can't stay there, it will be going in the 3D printing den after testing. Someone should tell Elegoo that just because we want a big area for timbering bricks, it doesn't mean we need it to reach the roof. If I needed some Gauge 1 signal posts this would be ideal.

This is my 5th FDM printer, so obviously I'm in need of therapy. Why get it? I want to do some timbering bases for 7mm and Gauge 3, for which the Neptune 2 would be a bit limiting. And I want to see if it's something I can suggest in answer to the question in this topic. The little Kingroon printer is great, and half the cost of this one, but there is no denying that the 180mm x 180mm build area is on the small side for 4mm track. This one measures 330mm x 330mm (13" x 13"), although the actual spec says 320mm x 320mm.

As I've mentioned before, the only way to find out if something works the way you want is to get one, rather than relying on web sites for information. Straightaway I was flummoxed to find no physical Z-limit switch. Nowhere is that mentioned on any web site I could find, and had it been I rather doubt I would have bought it.

My intention was to use a rigid glass bed in conjunction with the manual levelling screws, and forget about the automatic levelling function. It turns out that this printer uses an inductive proximity switch against the bed to set the Z limit. Inductive proximity switches work only against metal, which means a glass bed can't be used on this printer without some major modifications.

The only option therefore was to go with the flow and follow the instructions for automatic levelling with the supplied build plate. I was puzzled to see the Z-level can be adjusted in 0.01mm steps (less than 1/2 a thou) against a rough textured build plate. I turned it over and used the smooth side of the plate, and pretended it was rigid glass instead of bendy tin. After faithfully going through the levelling instructions I applied some PVP glue stick in the usual way (a stick is included with the printer, with no explanation of what it's for -- not with the textured build plate presumably), and used my normal Cura profille for timbering bricks unchanged.

The result is fine. It didn't stick to the plate quite as well as to glass, which caused a bit of stringy mess in the bottom of the sockets, but the rest is fine, dimensions match bricks from other printers, and the chairs clip-fit very positively.

I then turned the plate over and tried the same again on the intended textured side, without glue. Much better, very clean print around the bottom of the sockets, and all dimensions unchanged. I transferred the flexible plate to a solid flat surface (a piece of laminated chipboard shelving) to give the timber surfaces a light wet sanding and a scrub with a nail brush to remove any stringing (hardly necessary). Rinsed it off under the tap and the print just floated free of the plate.

So maybe my dislike of bendy tin build plates is unfounded. With the aid of the manual levelling screws I think I can get consistent timber thickness across all four corners of the plate. It just needs somewhere dead flat to support it for the final clean-up.

Today was just the first trial, so I will write more when I've done some more testing and maybe tweaked the settings.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Steve_Cornford]

I do not suppose it would be as simple as to put the glass build plate on the bed, then the metal build plate on top of that?
Perform the levelling, then swap the positions of the glass plate and the metal plate?
Another of Steve's daft ideas.

 

[Martin Wynne]

I do not suppose it would be as simple as to put the glass build plate on the bed, then the metal build plate on top of that?
Perform the levelling, then swap the positions of the glass plate and the metal plate?
Another of Steve's daft ideas.

@Steve_Cornford

Hi Steve,

I don't think that can work -- at the start of every print it goes to the Z home position which it detects against the metal bed. It would crash the nozzle into the glass.

However, the possibility of using a rigid sheet of glass, or something else, permanently under the metal plate had occurred to me. It would need some clips, because at present it relies on a magnetic sheet on the baseplate. But I've been using clips with glass anyway, so that's not a problem.

I haven't yet obtained a 13" x 13" sheet of glass and had intended to start with a smaller one.

For now I'm going to see what happens with the printer as supplied. It may be that the results are fine as it stands. So far, so good. My preference for rigid glass may just be based on past use of the other printers, without any real basis.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Hayfield]

With my birthday a week away I thought I should get my shopping list up and running for my Amazon order

I x Kingroon 3D printer
1 x filament reel
1 pack of glue
sticks
1 glass bed

I also need to download that program you mentioned, nearer the time I will go back through the thread to soak up all the useful advice,

Thanks for showing how small the printer is but the boss has stipulated I must tidy up my work room, so next week I will start making the place look a but tidier

Thanks again for all the past help and the offers of future assistance, now to prove my son-in-law wrong, he has stated on many occasions I should be kept away from all modern technology

John

 

[Hayfield]

Hi John,
I would be quite happy to send you some resin printed chair rafts to use once you get started on the FDM track bases.
Steve

Steve

Sorry for not replying earlier, thank you very much with the offer and hopefully you and others will be able to get me started.

Thanks again

John

 

[Martin Wynne]

@Hayfield

Hi John,

To go with the glass bed, if you don't already have 4 of these foldback clips, you will need to get some from the local pound shop, or:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B09TR8L88K

The other 46 will come in handy in the workshop as soldering clamps, etc. Strange it doesn't mention that they make ideal birthday presents.

p.s. if you have some large paper clips, it's possible to bend them into home-made clips.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Martin Wynne]

@Hayfield

p.s. John,

One thing I forget to mention when using the glass bed. It's 4mm thick and the supplied plastic bed is only 1mm thick. So you need to unscrew the Z-limit adjuster screw by 3mm, otherwise the nozzle will crash into the glass.

Or you could stick a bit of something 3mm thick on top of the screw with double-stick tape, which is what I did.

In any event, you will probably want to start with the plastic bed -- the glass bed comes from China, so will take longer to arrive.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Paul Boyd]

With my birthday a week away I thought I should get my shopping list up and running for my Amazon order

I x Kingroon 3D printer
1 x filament reel
1 pack of glue
sticks
1 glass bed

I also need to download that program you mentioned, nearer the time I will go back through the thread to soak up all the useful advice,

Thanks for showing how small the printer is but the boss has stipulated I must tidy up my work room, so next week I will start making the place look a but tidier

Thanks again for all the past help and the offers of future assistance, now to prove my son-in-law wrong, he has stated on many occasions I should be kept away from all modern technology

John

I’ve never understood what the glue sticks are for when discussing FDM printing!

 

[Martin Wynne]

I’ve never understood what the glue sticks are for when discussing FDM printing!

@Paul Boyd

Hi Paul,

When using a plain glass bed, they are used to assist adhesion to the glass.

Just a little -- a few dabs from the glue stick and then spread it out into a thin film using a damp sponge (not too damp). It's water soluble, so a rinse under the tap is all that is needed afterwards for the next print. It's not ordinary children's school glue stick -- the adhesive is PVP:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B09XMF1QVD

The PVP works well -- as the bed heats up it dries touch-dry, but still grabs well in contact with the hot plastic.

For getting accurate Z dimensions across the full bed area, a rigid flat bed is better than bendy tin (unless the printer has a good self-levelling function with the fade option switched off). Glass is the most convenient rigid flat material.

Some glass beds are printed with matrix on one side to aid adhesion, for which the glue stick isn't needed.

Strangely, the Neptune 3 printer won't work with a glass bed (inductive levelling sensor), but it still came with a PVP glue stick. No explanation of what it's for.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Paul Boyd]

@Paul Boyd

Hi Paul,

When using a plain glass bed, they are used to assist adhesion to the glass.

Just a little -- a few dabs from the glue stick and then spread it out into a thin film using a damp sponge (not too damp). It's water soluble, so a rinse under the tap is all that is needed afterwards for the next print. It's not ordinary children's school glue stick -- the adhesive is PVP:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B09XMF1QVD

The PVP works well -- as the bed heats up it dries touch-dry, but still grabs well in contact with the hot plastic.

For getting accurate Z dimensions across the full bed area, a rigid flat bed is better than bendy tin (unless the printer has a good self-levelling function with the fade option switched off). Glass is the most convenient rigid flat material.

Some glass beds are printed with matrix on one side to aid adhesion, for which the glue stick isn't needed.

Strangely, the Neptune 3 printer won't work with a glass bed (inductive levelling sensor), but it still came with a PVP glue stick. No explanation of what it's for.

cheers,

Martin.

Ah, I see, thanks ! My printer has sort of textured glass (the matrix?) which I guess is why I haven’t needed a glue stick. What I do need is to level the bed with everything warm, and also clean the warm glass with IPA just before printing. I’ve put a beep followed by a 3 second delay just before things start moving to give me time to get my hands out of the way.

Cheers,
Paul

 

[Phil G]

What I do need is to level the bed with everything warm,

Hi Paul,
How often are you finding you have to level or relevel the warm bed?
I am finding with my Ender 3 its frequent to say the least. I am not sure if that's me doing something wrong? Or just a quark of the FDM machines. Main reason for asking is Martin does not seem to have any issue without of level beds once there set. I wish I could say the same
cheers
Phil

 

[Martin Wynne]

@Phil G

Hi Phil,

Can you establish whether it is the bed changing level (adjusting wheels turning with vibration), or the Z-axis movements not being consistent? Or maybe there is some vertical play in the Y-axis rollers and they need tightening -- can you feel any vertical play in the bed -- watch the rollers with a torch to see which one is free to move vertically.

Do you have twin Z-screws? Are they mechanically synchronised with top pulleys and a toothed belt?

If so, slacken the rollers on the columns, so that you can turn them with your fingers without the X-bar lifting. With Z height controlled on both sides, the only purpose of the rollers is to keep the X-bar square to the Y-axis, and located lengthwise.

Z-axis backlash correction on these printers relies on gravity. Ideally if you lift the X-bar a fraction and release it, you should feel it drop back just a fraction under its own weight on both sides. If it doesn't do that the rollers are too tight.

If you have twin Z-screws, but they are not mechanically synchronised, I suggest removing one of them. Every time one of the steppers misses a step and loses synchronisation (which it will do if the rollers are too tight) the Z-levelling will be thrown out.

If you have only a single Z-screw, I suggest converting the printer to cantilever form by removing the right-hand rollers entirely. I had a lot of trouble with the Neptune 2 until I did that. The X-bar is not really designed for cantilever operation, so you need to check that the fixing screws are very tight at the left-hand end. And don't breathe on the printer while it is running! But the Neptune 2 works fine like that.

The best way of levelling is to run a couple of priming runs around the perimeter of the bed, and measure the thickness of it at each corner. It's also important to take the backlash out of the priming run by lifting up to do it. i.e. start by going to 0.1mm height and then lift to 0.3mm height for the priming run. I can post my Cura script for this if you want?

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Martin Wynne]

@Phil G

p.s. If you have Z-hopping enabled in your Cura profile, turn it off.

It serves no useful purpose, and if there is any stiffness in your Z-backlash it will wreck your levelling.

It also causes excessive wear in the brass nut.

Martin.

 

[Phil G]

Hi Martin,
Thanks for the detailed reply,
answer below are as follows,
I don't think there is any vibration issue with the bed leveling screws. The Ender 3 as sold had very weak springs, and this was an issue however not long after I purchased it (about 4 years ago now) I upgraded to stronger springs and the seem to stop a vibration issue.
As purchased it has a singe z and its horrible to the extent I stopped using FDM printers for the best part of 3 years.

Anyway about 4 or 5 months ago I purchased a second Z axis kit for it (second steeper type) but with a y connection so it's sill a single stepper driver. Everything I read at the time on the internet suggested this was the best approach. I did look at the belt drive as the other option though. the strong suggestion for twin belt driven Z was to also go with liner rails as vee wheels could easily cause too much drag and thus stretch the toothed mechanical belt.

For the Y axis I have replaced the vee wheels with liner rails, two sets one either side of the 40 mm extrusion. I am confident Y is now a good axis. (maybe the only good axis)
I just checked how tight the Z wheels are, and was surprised how tight they had become. I have just spent 30 mins or so backing these off and resetting. So hopefully that will help.

Re your suggestion of a cantilever, there are hundreds of post on the internet say don't do this with an ender 3. Exactly as you have said the X bar can't handle the extra weight. Especially if you go direct drive as well, which was my intension at that time as that only makes it worse.
Twin Z is the recommend way to go, all though mechanical belt vs twin motors is certainly out there as a very viable option.

One thing I don't quite understand with the missed steps argument, fully understand that could happed with the machine powered up and in use but at the end of a session when you power down, all stresses cause by missing steps must be equalized by pressure equalisation. So when you power back up don't you start a fresh with the stepper motor values anyway?

I would very much appreciate your Cura setting for bed leveling, and I will see if backing off the z wheels contact pressure has made any improvements.

My history with FDM printers is why they are certainly not my preferred choice of machine tool,
but I will keep trying. Maybe I will even get round to unboxing the Elegoo Neptune 3 (that's a lack of space/wife issue. which is exactly why its stilll in the box.
cheers
Phil,

 

[Martin Wynne]

all though mechanical belt vs twin motors is certainly out there as a very viable option.

@Phil G

Hi Phil,

I don't understand the vs there?

You want 2 Z-screws, 2 stepper motors, and a toothed belt linking them across the top of the machine. As on the Neptune 3.

Or you want 1 Z-screw, 1 stepper motor, and a cantilever design. As on the Kingroon.

If a lot of folks are going to be trying plug track we need to get this FDM stuff sorted out. I'm scared stiff the support load will be a nightmare. Everything works just fine here on my 5 different FDM printers. But I ignored almost everything advised on YouTube videos -- especially those fast-talking ones where you have to slow down the playback to make any sense of it, constantly interrupted by meaningless advertising.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[AndyB]

For what it's worth I have been using a glass bed on the heated bed of my now obsolete printer for some time. I use the cheapest possible hair spay to assist adhesion and it works well for me.

My printer had four bed leveling screws, one at each corner of the bed, but I found it very difficult to level the bed without introducing some distortion even in the plate glass so I converted it to a triangular arrangement with three screws by moving one screw to the middle of one side. The glass is permanently attached to the heated bed with silicone RTV adjacent to the leveling screw positions.

 

[Martin Wynne]

@AndyB

Hi Andy,

If the glass is permanently attached, how do you apply the hair spray without getting any on the printer frame?

The advantage of the glue-stick is that it can be applied to the glass bed in situ without getting any mess on the printer. It is also water-washable for cleaning off the glass when needed.

The overhead BIBO printer has 3-point levelling. For the others, I tend to attach the glass with only 3 clips -- 2 at the front and 1 in the middle at the back, clear of the heater cable. Then adjust it by turning both rear adjusters by the same amount each time. Physically moving the screws seems a lot of work?

cheers,

Martin.

 

[AndyB]

@AndyB

Hi Andy,

If the glass is permanently attached, how do you apply the hair spray without getting any on the printer frame?

The advantage of the glue-stick is that it can be applied to the glass bed in situ without getting any mess on the printer. It is also water-washable for cleaning off the glass when needed.

The overhead BIBO printer has 3-point levelling. For the others, I tend to attach the glass with only 3 clips -- 2 at the front and 1 in the middle at the back, clear of the heater cable. Then adjust it by turning both rear adjusters by the same amount each time. Physically moving the screws seems a lot of work?

cheers,

Martin.

Hi Martin,

Initially I tried clipping the glass to the bed but I found that to be quite unsatisfactory. It was a while ago and I don't remember precisely why now.

Moving the screw wasn't too difficult but I was getting so frustrated with the levelling carry on that I felt I had to do something. I'm glad I did because I've never had to touch the levelling adjustment again. Of course I'm using very small nozzles and that might make levelling more critical.

I have not noticed any issues with hair spray overspray but I'm running the printer in my workshop which tends to get quite messy anyway . I like the RTV attachment method because it prevents the bed distorting the glass at all which, come to think of it, was the problem I was having when I clipped the glass to the bed.

Cheers,

Andy

 

[AndyB]

Hi Martin,

Initially I tried clipping the glass to the bed but I found that to be quite unsatisfactory. It was a while ago and I don't remember precisely why now.

Moving the screw wasn't too difficult but I was getting so frustrated with the levelling carry on that I felt I had to do something. I'm glad I did because I've never had to touch the levelling adjustment again. Of course I'm using very small nozzles and that might make levelling more critical.

I have not noticed any issues with hair spray overspray but I'm running the printer in my workshop which tends to get quite messy anyway . I like the RTV attachment method because it prevents the bed distorting the glass at all which, come to think of it, was the problem I was having when I clipped the glass to the bed.

Cheers,

Andy

Just to add that if I was making my own printer the triangulated levelling screws would position the glass and the heated bed would just be "along for the ride". Plate glass is extremely flat but it does bend slightly under pressure.