New Mars printer!

[Paul Boyd]

Well, all credit to Amazon delivery for once - I ordered the Mars 4 MSLA printer and a bottle of Anycubic water washable resin on Sunday, the resin arrived yesterday and the printer today. What’s really nice is that the printer came with a paper manual to get me started.

It’s levelled and in place, and I “printed” a few layers with no resin in the tank and all seems ok. That’s where it’s staying but I think I’ll sit it in an old tea tray in case of resin disasters. I’m also waiting to get some suitable tubs to wash parts in before using it in anger. I also have some ideas on UV curing.

There’ll be questions! For starters:-

1 - the film seems very fragile with lots of dire warnings about not puncturing it, for obvious reasons. Apart from carelessness, is there anything inherent in the process I should be aware of that might puncture it?

2 - when pouring resin back into the bottle, through a filter, what’s the safest way to clean the film and tank? Dunk the whole lot into a bucket of water and wipe?

Cheers,
Paul

 

[Martin Wynne]

1 - the film seems very fragile with lots of dire warnings about not puncturing it, for obvious reasons. Apart from carelessness, is there anything inherent in the process I should be aware of that might puncture it?

@Paul Boyd

Hi Paul,

Congrats on getting a resin printer!

It's important to check each print to see that no part is missing. It won't be missing because it didn't get exposed -- it's missing because it's still in the tank, probably stuck to the film. If you start a fresh print and the build plate comes down onto it, it's likely to damage the film and maybe the screen below it.

You probably have a yellow plastic scraper/mixer thingy supplied. The idea is to use that through the resin to feel for any obstructions on the film. If you feel any it's bad luck, you need to clean out the tank and remove them from the film. If not you can just carry on with the next print. With luck you can go for several weeks just topping up the tank. Just give it a stir each time with the yellow thingy. I cover it with aluminium foil in addition to the red cover between jobs. Some 3rd-party spare tanks come with a clip-on cover. Having several spare tanks makes it easier to use different resins.

when pouring resin back into the bottle, through a filter, what’s the safest way to clean the film and tank? Dunk the whole lot into a bucket of water and wipe?

It's not a good idea to filter used resin back into the original bottle -- somewhere in the Anycubic docs it says definitely not to do that. Presumably it affects its shelf life. It's better to filter it into an old empty bottle instead -- which you haven't got yet. I can recommend a large glass jar ex-pickled beetroot -- which has a wide top much easier to use with the filters than the narrow neck of the original bottles. But keep it wrapped in aluminium foil in the dark until you are ready to use it again. As far as I know, pickled onions work equally well.

After pouring out the resin, brush round the tank a few times with water and pour into your waste water container until it's almost clean. Then a final dunk in a bucket of clean water. Don't tell anyone, but I use one of these window scrapers from the pound shop to remove items stuck to the film. It works much better than the supplied scrapers. But that's a sharp Stanley knife blade, so keep it at a low angle well lubricated with water and use it gently to avoid nicking the film. I keep intending to round off the blade corners with an oilstone to make it safer, but I haven't got round to doing it yet:

Dry off the tank with a hairdryer before putting it back on the printer and refilling.

It's not really a "tank" is it? "Tray" would be nearer. Presumably coined by those folks who "hit" buttons instead of simply pressing them.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Steve_Cornford]

Do you get any sort of "drip bracket" with the Mars 4?
Or with the Alkaid ?
Steve

 

[Paul Boyd]

Hi Martin,

Thanks for all that, very useful info which I've printed off. I'll add a suitable size jar to my shopping list for Friday!

It's not really a "tank" is it? "Tray" would be nearer.

I kept wanting to write 'tray' but as Elegoo call it a tank I thought I'd better go along with it!

Cheers,
Paul

 

[Paul Boyd]

Do you get any sort of "drip bracket" with the Mars 4?
Or with the Alkaid ?
Steve

Hi Steve,

Now you mention it, there wasn't one. I know what you mean though so it's something I'll sort out. There seem to be a plethora of downloadable designs which I can FDM print.

Cheers,
Paul

 

[Martin Wynne]

@Steve_Cornford @Paul Boyd

Hi Steve, Paul,

I found with the Anycubic water-washable resin that it's more fluid than the Elegoo resin. It drained off the plate quite quickly without really needing to be tipped at an angle. I left it dripping for 5 minutes after printing, and then held it over the tank at an angle for a minute or so, and it was ready for washing.

p.s. No drip bracket supplied with the Alkaid. Nor the blue cutters. But it is half the price of anything else! And you do get a neat pair of tiny tweezers -- I still haven't discovered what they are actually for.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Phil G]

Hi Paul,
I can't yet speak for water washable resin but for Elegoo ABS like, I found your actually better of not emptying the (Tank, or Tray or Vat or) whatever other name we can think of each time, unless you strongly suspect a failed print.
I have found the ideal solution is simply to use an aluminium foil tray inverted and shaped to fit snugly around the Mars tank. then put the red plastic cover over it all. What your really doing is preventing UV light getting to the resin, and restraining the smell as well.

I have left it like that for 3+ months just as an experiment, having watch a YouTube on this subject, and as long as you give the resin a very good stir its actually fine to use. This is far less messy then cleaning it every time and you don't waste anything like the amount of resin this way either.
for longer storage, cleaning back to new is the right option however. (3 months was only an experiment, oh and I forgot about it as well)

Re the FEP the killer is as Martin side a failed print. Another issue is how best to get the failed print off the FEP. Never use any sort of scraper, even silicone as these can also mark or indent the FEP surface. Unless of course you are Martin with his amassing all round skill set.
I have found the best option is actually once the tank is clean you can lightly flick the back of the FEP with your finger nail it will sound like a drum skin being tapped. if you flick it a few time right over the stuck bits,( noting gently)
even stuck on parts will ping loose.
cheers
Phil,

 

[Martin Wynne]

@Paul Boyd

Hi Paul,

That looks a great printer with 18 microns resolution. And almost the same on the Z axis. That's 3 times better than the Mars 2 Pro and perfect if you are looking at bullhead track in 2mm scale or TT-120. In 7mm scale you could have working threads on the fishbolts! Keep us posted on your results.

The Mars 4 specs are a bit confusing. It seems the Ultra model has the frosted ACF film, but your 9K has the clear FEP film? Using a frosted film seems a crazy idea if you want fine detail, and entirely defeats the 18 microns resolution.

Also the Elegoo web site says "Mars 4 uses Voxeldance Tango Slicer" but then in the actual specs it says "Slicer Software: ChituBox". Which is it? Or are they the same? One thing to check in the slicer is whether ant-aliasing is switched on by default. You need to switch it off if making engineering-type parts needing sharp corners and accurate dimensions.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Jim Guthrie]

My Phrozen Sonic Mini 4K has an FEP cleaning process whereby the screen is fully exposed overall for thirty seconds. With resin in the tank, a layer of the resin is exposed across the FEP and when you take this layer off, it takes off any other items which were stuck to the FEP. Taking the layer off can be a bit tricky since you have to get under a corner or edge to peel it off the FEP and that could cause damage to the FEP. But I place an old bit of support near the edge of the FEP before starting the screen exposure and this provides a handle to start lifting the exposed layer with no possibility of damage to the FEP. I find this very handy since it avoids having to remove and empty the tank to clean the FEP by other methods.

If your printer doesn't have this facility I suspect that you could do something similar by making a print of one layer of a large support base at thirty seconds, without having the build plate mounted.

Jim.

 

[Paul Boyd]

My Phrozen Sonic Mini 4K has an FEP cleaning process whereby the screen is fully exposed overall for thirty seconds. With resin in the tank, a layer of the resin is exposed across the FEP and when you take this layer off, it takes off any other items which were stuck to the FEP. Taking the layer off can be a bit tricky since you have to get under a corner or edge to peel it off the FEP and that could cause damage to the FEP. But I place an old bit of support near the edge of the FEP before starting the screen exposure and this provides a handle to start lifting the exposed layer with no possibility of damage to the FEP. I find this very handy since it avoids having to remove and empty the tank to clean the FEP by other methods.

If your printer doesn't have this facility I suspect that you could do something similar by making a print of one layer of a large support base at thirty seconds, without having the build plate mounted.

Jim.

Hi Jim,

Mine does have that function, but as it's undocumented I had to look it up to see what it actually did! There are mixed thoughts about this online, as usual, but the method makes some sense to me.

Cheers,
Paul

 

[Phil G]

Hi Guys,
I have also tried the expose full screen idea. As Jim said the issue is then getting one end started. which means you have an even bigger problem than you started with. I must admit I had not thought about adding something solid in a corner to get a starting point. That does seem like a good idea
Cheers
Phil.

 

[Paul Boyd]

@Paul Boyd

Hi Paul,

That looks a great printer with 18 microns resolution. And almost the same on the Z axis. That's 3 times better than the Mars 2 Pro and perfect if you are looking at bullhead track in 2mm scale or TT-120. In 7mm scale you could have working threads on the fishbolts! Keep us posted on your results.

The Mars 4 specs are a bit confusing. It seems the Ultra model has the frosted ACF film, but your 9K has the clear FEP film? Using a frosted film seems a crazy idea if you want fine detail, and entirely defeats the 18 microns resolution.

Also the Elegoo web site says "Mars 4 uses Voxeldance Tango Slicer" but then in the actual specs it says "Slicer Software: ChituBox". Which is it? Or are they the same? One thing to check in the slicer is whether ant-aliasing is switched on by default. You need to switch it off if making engineering-type parts needing sharp corners and accurate dimensions.

cheers,

Martin.

Hi Martin,

I was actually thinking 3mm scale chairs which are perfect for code 60 BH on my 4mm scale narrow gauge stuff! I'm currently using chairs and rail from the 3mm Society. That does of course mean designing that section of track to 3mm scale with gauge modifications etc...

The specs are very confusing, I found, and I had to check several times to make sure the printer I was buying was the one I thought I was buying - it seems to go by either 'Mars 4 9K' or 'Mars 4 MSLA' depending on where you look, and not to be confused with DLP or Max or Ultra versions. The box has MSLA on the outside, the printer has a 9K logo on it! It does indeed have clear FEP film, but if frosted is available I'll have to be careful not to get that - and keeping spares handy seems like a good idea.

Software - the USB stick has both Chitubox and Voxeldance Tango slicers! They're not the same, and the latter has what seems a complicated registration process. I'll stick with Chitubox as being one fewer of very many variables and a slightly less silly name! I haven't done anything with Chitubox yet but I'll make a note to check the anti-aliasing setting.

Before I get into plug track I'll need to get comfortable with the printing process in general. I have so many projects in mind which I've been putting off because of Shapeways pricing - bogies and interiors, and maybe roofs, for Worsley works etches for instance, of which I have many empty shells built up.

Cheers,
Paul

 

[Martin Wynne]

Hi all,

The Alkaid also has the cleaning function on the menu, but no explanation of what it does or how best to use it.

Exposing the entire FEP to the corners sounds a bit tricky to me. If you did only half of it, and pour out the unused resin, you could get the window scraper under the exposed edge of the entire width to remove it. Put the resin back and do the other half. Worth a try?

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Paul Boyd]

@Phil G, @Martin Wynne

Thinking about stuck bits, I get the idea of very gently using the soft plastic scraper to feel for bits stuck to the film, and if finding any having to clean the tank out. But what if there are bits I don't find floating about or that I've dislodged without realising - is that a possibility?

I definitely like the idea of leaving the resin in the tank for a while so I'll probably cover it with foil. I'll need to keep a note of when it was last used though because so often what I think is a week turns out to be a month!

Cheers,
Paul

 

[Martin Wynne]

@Phil G, @Martin Wynne

Thinking about stuck bits, I get the idea of very gently using the soft plastic scraper to feel for bits stuck to the film, and if finding any having to clean the tank out. But what if there are bits I don't find floating about or that I've dislodged without realising - is that a possibility?

I definitely like the idea of leaving the resin in the tank for a while so I'll probably cover it with foil. I'll need to keep a note of when it was last used though because so often what I think is a week turns out to be a month!

Cheers,
Paul

@Paul Boyd

Hi Paul,

I've never found any loose bits floating in the resin, other than bits I've dislodged with the scraper thing. It's not likely you can dislodge anything without knowing, things stuck on the FEP are usually well stuck. There is some force involved when the plate pulls the layer off the FEP, and it will either break from the model and stay stuck to the FEP, or pull away from the FEP. It doesn't seem likely that it would do both at once and float about. If it did, when the plate comes back down it would very likely get embedded into the next layer.

I've left the resin in the tank and started re-using it after several months. It just needs a good stir. Provided it's covered and completely protected from UV, I can't see any reason why it should be any different in the tank than in a half-empty bottle. Admittedly the room I'm using was once my photographic darkroom, and I have a board to block the window, so there is no natural daylight in there most of the time. Maybe put a cardboard box over the printer if you will be leaving it for while? The box it came in should be the right size. That will keep the dust off it too.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Steve_Cornford]

I would recomend that after removing the build plate from the printer you check that no drips have occurred outside or on the rim of the resin vat, and if there has been any spillage remove the tank to ensure no resin has found it's way onto the screen or under the FEP!
Steve

 

[Martin Wynne]

I would recomend that after removing the build plate from the printer you check that no drips have occurred outside or on the rim of the resin vat, and if there has been any spillage remove the tank to ensure no resin has found it's way onto the screen or under the FEP!
Steve

@Steve_Cornford

Hi Steve,

I have an old biscuit-tin lid which I place over the whole tank area to catch any drips while I'm handling the build plate. A couple of blobs of Blu-Tack on the tank screw tops stop it falling off. I keep it held under the build plate while transferring it away form the printer to the wash. It wastes a tiny bit of resin that might otherwise have dripped back into the tank, but not enough to worry about. I leave it in the daylight afterwards to cure the drips on it before next time -- it's well covered by now.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Paul Boyd]

Hi all,

The Alkaid also has the cleaning function on the menu, but no explanation of what it does or how best to use it.

Exposing the entire FEP to the corners sounds a bit tricky to me. If you did only half of it, and pour out the unused resin, you could get the window scraper under the exposed edge of the entire width to remove it. Put the resin back and do the other half. Worth a try?

cheers,

Martin.

On the Mars, the built-in function just lights up the whole LCD for 15s, or whatever you choose, so you couldn't do half with that. I think printing a model that covers each half in turn would have exactly the same effect though.

 

[Paul Boyd]

Maybe put a cardboard box over the printer if you will be leaving it for while? The box it came in should be the right size. That will keep the dust off it too.

I don't have enough space for that - I wouldn't be able to open the cupboard door! The inner plastic bag would be fine though - I have something similar with a huge bag over my FDM printer to keep the dust off.

The biscuit tin lid is a good idea in more ways than one - I'll need to buy a tin of biscuits

I've never found any loose bits floating in the resin, other than bits I've dislodged with the scraper thing. It's not likely you can dislodge anything without knowing, things stuck on the FEP are usually well stuck

That's reassuring, thank you.

From the various posts, it seems I'll be leaving the resin in the tank as much as possible, suitably covered with as much light blocking as possible. My initial impression was of having to pour it back into the bottle (a different bottle!) and clean up after every batch of printing. I'll probably learn a few new words the first time I feel something stuck to the film

Cheers,
Paul

 

[Martin Wynne]

On the Mars, the built-in function just lights up the whole LCD for 15s, or whatever you choose, so you couldn't do half with that. I think printing a model that covers each half in turn would have exactly the same effect though.

Maybe you could slip a piece of thin black plasticard under half the tank? Or anything that won't damage the screen or the FEP.

But it's easy to make a suitable half-screen model in Templot. Just draw a brick slab rectangle in the background shapes and print it with nothing on it.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Martin Wynne]

I don't have enough space for that - I wouldn't be able to open the cupboard door!

@Paul Boyd

I don't believe it! In your photo I can see at least an inch between the top of the printer and the bottom of the cupboard door.

A person incapable of shortening a cardboard box may not be ready for 3D printing!

Martin.

 

[Steve_Cornford]

If you suspect that you have any bits adhered to the FEP , I would caution against performing another print as this would most likely damage the FEP as the build plate goes to home for the 1st layer and presses any cured bits down onto the FEP
Steve

 

[Martin Wynne]

If you suspect that you have any bits adhered to the FEP , I would caution against performing another print as this would most likely damage the FEP as the build plate goes to home for the 1st layer and presses any cured bits down onto the FEP
Steve

@Steve_Cornford

Hi Steve.

You leave the build plate off for the cleaning function.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Steve_Cornford]

I was not talking about the FEP clean function, but advising against performing a print instead of a FEP clean.
Someone previously mentioned printing something in one half , then another print in the other half.

When FEP cleaning, the build plate does not descend.
Steve

 

[Martin Wynne]

I was not talking about the FEP clean function, but advising against performing a print.
Someone previously mentioned printing something in one half , then another print in the other half.

When FEP cleaning, the build plate does not descend.
Steve

@Steve_Cornford

Hi Steve,

That was for the same purpose as cleaning, without using the built-in function. Make a print in the normal way, but leave the build plate off. The theory being that removing the printed slab from the tank should be a lot easier if it is only half the FEP at a time.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Steve_Cornford]

Having performed a print, and left to drain, remove build plate & perform a visual check of your rafts.
It is usually quite easy to spot if one or more loose jaws, or parts of chairs are missing, as the human eye is quite good at recognising a break in a pattern.
If bits missing perform a FEP clean before printing more chairs.
Steve

 

[Paul Boyd]

@Paul Boyd

I don't believe it! In your photo I can see at least an inch between the top of the printer and the bottom of the cupboard door.

A person incapable of shortening a cardboard box may not be ready for 3D printing!

Martin.

It’s actually 10-12mm, depending on how far the door swings - being a new-ish build, nothing is actually straight!

Mainly though, a cardboard box sitting on my kitchen worktop is rather unsightly! At least the printer is vaguely decorative

 

[Martin Wynne]

Mainly though, a cardboard box sitting on my kitchen worktop is rather unsightly! At least the printer is vaguely decorative

You could paint it!

If it has a flat top, you would have regained some of the putting-stuff-down space lost to the printer. Just don't open the cupboard at the same time.



Martin.

 

[Jim Guthrie]

You could paint it!

If it has a flat top, you would have regained some of the putting-stuff-down space lost to the printer. Just don't open the cupboard at the same time.



Martin.

There will be a Feng Shui button appearing on the next version.

Jim.

 

[Paul Boyd]

Better?

 

[Paul Boyd]

And whether it’s really needed or not…. At least it gave my FDM printer a workout.

 

[Phil G]

Hi Paul,
If you going to print on that Kitchen area I would at the very least have something between the printer and the bench top as there is no doubt you will get some drips coming of the build plate once its finished printing.
Cheers
Phil,

 

[Paul Boyd]

Hi Paul,
If you going to print on that Kitchen area I would at the very least have something between the printer and the bench top as there is no doubt you will get some drips coming of the build plate once its finished printing.
Cheers
Phil,

Hi Phil,

Yes, I will be covering everything in sight. I wasn't actually expecting the printer to arrive as quickly as it did so wasn't really ready for its arrival. I'm planning on sitting it in a tea tray in case of any bigger spills. Cleaning won't be done in that little corner so the whole area from the printer onwards will be covered as I'll have to carry a wet model across the hob to a more accessible area.

I'm going shopping at the weekend getting bits like translucent wash tubs and funnels and filter paper for the waste water - my instinct would have been to go into Wilko in the town centre, have a coffee, pop into a friend's antique shop, pop into a charity shop for a tea tray etc, but now I'll have to go to the shops on the edge of town with none of that.

Cheers,
Paul

 

[Paul Boyd]

@Martin Wynne

It's not really a "tank" is it?

I've just been watching a video on changing the FEP, and they call it a vat. Mind you, it also took me a while to work out what a "squash" was - it seems to be the metal plates that sandwich the FEP! I was watching the video because I'm struggling to find FEP that says it's compatible with my printer so I wanted to see exactly what this looks like when bought, but in reality so long as the sheet is big enough and thin enough it'll be fine. Even within the "Mars series" there seem to be different sizes quoted - all very confusing again.

One thing I did notice in the video is that there seemed to be no attempt to tension the FEP and it looked quite wavy at the end - certainly not the drum skin that @Phil G mentioned and mine is now.

Anyway, I had a play with Chitubox yesterday and oddly enough (!) there isn't a profile for Anycubic resin for the Elegoo printer! I've ordered a bottle of Elegoo water-washable resin to learn with - fewer variables again as I'll be starting from a known profile! As I said earlier, I wasn't expecting the printer to arrive so quickly so I'm not really prepared

 

[Martin Wynne]

I'm struggling to find FEP that says it's compatible with my printer so I wanted to see exactly what this looks like when bought

@Paul Boyd

Hi Paul,

There were 2 spare FEPs supplied with my Mars printer.

They would be easy to throw out with the packaging -- just thin plastic sheets in a plastic bag.

I haven't needed to use either of them yet, so I can't advise on the process of changing them. As I understand it, the process of tightening the screws creates the drum skin effect, provided you do them in the right order a bit at a time. But I have yet to find out.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Paul Boyd]

@Paul Boyd

Hi Paul,

There were 2 spare FEPs supplied with my Mars printer.

They would be easy to throw out with the packaging -- just thin plastic sheets in a plastic bag.

I haven't needed to use either of them yet, so I can't advise on the process of changing them. As I understand it, the process of tightening the screws creates the drum skin effect, provided you do them in the right order a bit at a time. But I have yet to find out.

cheers,

Martin.

Hi Martin,

They’re not shown on the packing list, but I will double-check when I get home. It feels like the sort of thing I should have handy because it would be very frustrating if I damaged it then had to wait for a new one.

Cheers,
Paul

 

[Phil O]

@Paul Boyd

Hi Paul,

There were 2 spare FEPs supplied with my Mars printer.

They would be easy to throw out with the packaging -- just thin plastic sheets in a plastic bag.

I haven't needed to use either of them yet, so I can't advise on the process of changing them. As I understand it, the process of tightening the screws creates the drum skin effect, provided you do them in the right order a bit at a time. But I have yet to find out.

cheers,

Martin.

Martin,

If there are things like tightening screws in the correct sequence, there ought to be a Haynes manual for it, and the appropriate torque settings. It's been a long time since I did anything more than check the oil, water and tyre pressures, that needed a manual.

 

[Paul Boyd]

@Paul Boyd

Hi Paul,

There were 2 spare FEPs supplied with my Mars printer.

They would be easy to throw out with the packaging -- just thin plastic sheets in a plastic bag.

I haven't needed to use either of them yet, so I can't advise on the process of changing them. As I understand it, the process of tightening the screws creates the drum skin effect, provided you do them in the right order a bit at a time. But I have yet to find out.

cheers,

Martin.

Hi Martin,

Definitely no spare FEPs . Looking at the printer, it’s also obvious now how it tightens - the film is clamped by the two frames, and when the assembly is fitted to the vat/tank/tray it pulls the film over a ridge to tighten it.

I’m encouraged by the fact that you haven’t needed to replace yours yet though, despite scraping with a Stanley blade!

Cheers,
Paul

 

[Martin Wynne]

If there are things like tightening screws in the correct sequence, there ought to be a Haynes manual for it, and the appropriate torque settings.

@Phil O @Paul Boyd

I seem to recall a link to a detailed tutorial on fitting a Mars FEP, on the Scalefour forum. I will see if I can find it.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Martin Wynne]

@Phil O @Paul Boyd

I seem to recall a link to a detailed tutorial on fitting a Mars FEP, on the Scalefour forum. I will see if I can find it.

cheers,

Martin.

@Paul Boyd

Here you go:

https://www.scalefour.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=83053#p83053

Martin.