What printer should I get ?

[Steve_Cornford]

Hi Martin,
I have had an email stating it was going to be shipped from China, 10-15 days

By the way when you click on the [eu warehouse] you get this screen:-

which is for the bundle, and KPS3 Pro S1 is strucj through.

I went for [SA warehouse]:-

That was in a weak moment whislt recovering from a chest infection. I have one more day of anti-biotics to go!

We will have to wait and say what & when it arrives!
Steve

 

[KHC1]

That seams way too quick to me. I printed a turnout base today sliced using Pursa but at 0.12 including a brim and upper surface ironing. It took 6hrs 25mins to print.

 

[Martin Wynne]

Hi Martin,
I have had an email stating it was going to be shipped from China, 10-15 days

By the way when you click on the [eu warehouse] you get this screen:-

View attachment 7834

which is for the bundle, and KPS3 Pro S1 is strucj through.

I went for [SA warehouse]:-

View attachment 7835

That was in a weak moment whislt recovering from a chest infection. I have one more day of anti-biotics to go!

We will have to wait and say what & when it arrives!
Steve

@Steve_Cornford

hi Steve,

sorry to hear you haven't been well. i hope you are soon feeling better.

it's as clear as mud. it seems you have ordered the one with the y-axis linear rails already-fitted. i seem to have ordered the one with rubber y-axis wheels, bundled with the upgrade kit for y-axis linear rails.

in neither case is it possible to be sure whether we are getting the glass bed or the flexible tinplate bed.

the others will now be placing their bets on which arrives first. unspecified delivery from USA with 16 days already gone, or quoted 10-15 days from China?

cheers,

martin.

 

[James Walters]

Plug Track express in S Scale

Fabulous. Lovely loco's too.

 

[BetweenTheTunnels]

A question chaps ... what is the resin of choice for chairs? Earlier in this thread, Martin suggested the eSUN PLA+ FDM fillament (in brown or grey) - https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07FQ75QG2?th=1 - which I presume remains the choice for jigs and sleepers, but I cannot find any reference in a few different threads of the best resin ... or does it not matter which one?

Richie

 

[Martin Wynne]

@BetweenTheTunnels

Hi Richie,

Welcome to Templot Club.
___________________________________

the resin I'm now using is this, in grey:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0C7BFQZ2C

there are others, but it's important to be ABS-Like which is more resilient than the standard resins.
____________________________________

the filament I'm using is this, in grey or brown:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07FQ75QG2

it's toughened PLA-PLUS which is also more resilient than standard PLA. The same filament for both the timbering bases and the filing jigs.
____________________________________

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Hayfield]

Martin

I have just ordered this

ANYCUBIC Upgraded Water Washable 3D Printer Resin, 405nm LCD UV-Curing Photopolymer Resin with High Precision and Low Shrinkage for 8K Capable LCD/DLP/SLA 3D Printing(Grey,1kg)​

Edit

I have just cancelled the order and reordered the one you advised

Visit the ANYCUBIC Store

is it the wrong one ?

John

 

[BetweenTheTunnels]

@BetweenTheTunnels

Hi Richie,

Welcome to Templot Club.
___________________________________

the resin I'm now using is this, in grey:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0C7BFQZ2C

there are others, but it's important to be ABS-Like which is more resilient than the standard resins.
____________________________________

the filament I'm using is this, in grey or brown:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07FQ75QG2

it's toughened PLA-PLUS which is also more resilient than standard PLA. The same filament for both the timbering bases and the filing jigs.
____________________________________

cheers,

Martin.

Thank you for the warm welcome and the advice Martin, much appreciated.

I presume resin and fillament is like many things, in that the resin does not have to be produced bythe same company that made the printer.

Richie

 

[Martin Wynne]

@Hayfield

Hi John,

That doesn't say anything about being ABS-Like or High Toughness, so it may be a bit brittle for chairs. It will probably be very good for detailed model wagons and model parts and such like.

p.s. I have mentioned the importance of ABS-Like many times on the forum.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Hayfield]

@Hayfield

Hi John,

That doesn't say anything about being ABS-Like or High Toughness, so it may be a bit brittle for chairs. It will probably be very good for detailed model wagons and model parts and such like.

p.s. I have mentioned the importance of ABS-Like many times on the forum.

cheers,

Martin.

Martin

I have changed the order to the one you advised, crisis adverted. Thanks

John

 

[Martin Wynne]

Thank you for the warm welcome and the advice Martin, much appreciated.

I presume resin and filament is like many things, in that the resin does not have to be produced by the same company that made the printer.

Richie

@BetweenTheTunnels

Hi Richie,

No -- I have a sneaking suspicion it all comes out of the same factory in China, just through a different door.

For the Mars printers several of us had been using the Elegoo ABS-Like, but the new Anycubic version is water-washable which makes it much more user-friendly.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Phil O]

Martin,

How did last night's print go?

 

[Martin Wynne]

@Phil O @Hayfield @Phil G

Hi Phil,

I have spent today trying various changed settings on the Neptune 3 Plus. I want to get results matching what I've been getting on the Neptune 2 Pro. Given that the 3 has a direct-drive extruder, you would think it should be better regardless. But it isn't, primarily I think because it has a poor retraction capability with a maximum retraction speed of only 25mm/sec. Both the Neptune 2 and the little Kingroon have much snappier extruders.

The result last night was disappointing, with far more stringing in the sockets than I'd like. Reducing the temperature to 180degC made it worse rather than better, contrary to general 3D thinking.

It seemed to me that with a slow retraction speed, the nozzle pressure might reduce more quickly if the polymer was more fluid, i.e. at a higher temperature, rather than lower. Then to prevent oozing it might help if the underlying print was cooler, i.e. reduce the bed temperature.

So I have ended up using these settings, and the latest print is much improved. A scrub with a nailbrush removed almost all of the fine stringing, and a quick wet sanding removed most of the remaining rough surface bits:

initial layer nozzle temp: 205degC (same as before)
initial layer bed temp: 60degC (same as before)

remaining print nozzle temp: 190degC
remaining print bed temp: 40degC

I'm using the shiny back surface of the dreaded PEI textured build plate. It works quite well, although needing rather more glue-stick than a glass bed -- which I would much prefer, but won't work on the Neptune 3.

All the dimensions are good, and the clip-fit chairs snap in nicely, and easily push through any remaining slight stringing in the socket.

So I think I'm getting there, and it's worth it to have the bigger 330mm x 330mm (13" x13") build area.

I will post an updated Cura profile tomorrow.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Martin Wynne]

crisis adverted

@Hayfield @Steve_Cornford

Hi John,

If your resin arrives today and you are planning to try your first prints on the Alkaid, a couple of important points:

1. thoroughly clean the build plate with solvent or water/detergent before you start. It will likely still have some traces of factory dirt/grease/fingerprints on it as supplied. This is often the reason a beginner's first print fails. Ask Steve.

2. if using the ABS-Like resin, do not use the print settings contained in the Alkaid manual, which are for the standard Geeetech resin. The ABS-Like resin rafts needs a longer bottom exposure time. I will be posting my suggested settings here shortly.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Hayfield]

@Hayfield @Steve_Cornford

Hi John,

If your resin arrives today and you are planning to try your first prints on the Alkaid, a couple of important points:

1. thoroughly clean the build plate with solvent or water/detergent before you start. It will likely still have some traces of factory dirt/grease/fingerprints on it as supplied. This is often the reason a beginner's first print fails. Ask Steve.

2. if using the ABS-Like resin, do not use the print settings contained in the Alkaid manual, which are for the standard Geeetech resin. The ABS-Like resin rafts needs a longer bottom exposure time. I will be posting my suggested settings here shortly.

cheers,

Martin.

Martin

Thank you, sadly the resin will not be delivered till Thursday so I have a bit of time tp make some files and clean everything up

But thank you for the tips and help

John

 

[Steve_Cornford]

Hi Martin & James,
Perhaps there could be a separate reference topic "Getting started with Alkaid Resin Printer" which could collate all the hints & tips, profiles etc.
Steve.

 

[BetweenTheTunnels]

@Martin Wynne

Martin (or anyone else in the know)
A quick question, I have been debiting for a few weeks now over a Saturn 3 12K (which has an xy resolution of 19x25 micros) or a Mars 4 9K (like @Paul Boyd ) which has an equal xy resolution of 18 microns. I was working on the premise that 12K was better than 9K, but I am now thinking the Mars might be the better option for small detail things, vehicle boxes, chairs etc..

Anyone have any thoughts?
Richie

 

[James Walters]

Hi Richie,
I've recently purchased a 12k machine, and I'm yet to be convinced it is possible to print at 12k. I just don't think the resins are good enough. It does produce lovely prints though, with slightly less shrinkage than the Alkaid machine.
Having now got 7 resin printers the only thing I've learned for certain is that as the resolution increases the longevity of the screen diminishes. I reckon the Alkaid screen would last for donkey's years, I doubt the same could be said for my new Anycubic machine.
I'm sure that either of those printers you are looking at would be excellent. But after a coat of paint I'd be surprised if anyone could tell which printer you'd used to produce a particular part.
My favourite printer to use is the Alkaid one - I don't know why, I just like it.

James

 

[Martin Wynne]

@Martin Wynne

Martin (or anyone else in the know)
A quick question, I have been debiting for a few weeks now over a Saturn 3 12K (which has an xy resolution of 19x25 micros) or a Mars 4 9K (like @Paul Boyd ) which has an equal xy resolution of 18 microns. I was working on the premise that 12K was better than 9K, but I am now thinking the Mars might be the better option for small detail things, vehicle boxes, chairs etc..

Anyone have any thoughts?
Richie

@BetweenTheTunnels

Hi Richie,

I'm taking this talk of higher resolutions with a pinch of salt. It's just marketing hype.

Raw resolution (dots per inch) means nothing if you don't know the resolving power -- and it's noticeable that manufacturers don't publish that. Resolving power is the ability to generate distinct dots. For example if you draw rows of thin parallel lines on a surface, how thin and closely spaced can they be before you can no longer detect each line separately with a space between each one.

Having two dots instead of one, doubling the so-called resolution, is no help at all if the light from one of them spills over into the space occupied by its neighbour. You may just as well remain with a single dot which doesn't do that, or does it much less.

The resin we use for the chairs is not a crystal clear liquid. The idea that a beam of light 18 microns wide can penetrate a FEP film and 2 thou into a murky grey liquid without scattering in all directions is daft. We would need to be paying for high-end optical lab equipment to achieve that.

The Mars 2 printer and the Alkaid clone has a resolution of 2560 dots in 5" or 512 dpi (dots per inch). So-called 2K.

The human eye can resolve images only up to about 300 dpi at normal reading distance. So even if the Mars suffers some light spillage between the dots, it is still likely to do better than the human eye. With the result that the layer lines or fine detail on the chairs can't be seen at reading distance. Which is true for me. Admittedly my eyes are 75 years old and yours probably aren't, but even so I doubt you can see it much better. At normal viewing distance of a model railway, there is no chance of seeing it. Close-up photos show that the chair screws have square heads, and with a better printer they might be even squarer. But if we can't see them, getting a better printer is wasted effort and cost. I put them there for the benefit of Gauge 1 modellers.

The lower-cost Alkaid printer appears to match the Mars 2 printer specs, and may even contain the same components from Chitu Systems:

https://www.chitusystems.com/product/chitu-l-v3/

or clones of them. That's why the only slicer it supports is Chitubox.

Ultimately the only test you can apply is whether you can actually see the difference in the results. I can imagine that's probably true, just, for 4K over 2K, but I would take some convincing that going any higher would make much difference for the chairs. It might when using the brittle crystal-clear resins for decorative prints.

Martin.

 

[BetweenTheTunnels]

Thanks Martin / James,
I started looking at the others, given your comment on Western Thunder about not sure the £99 printer James had reviewed would be good enough for printing 3mm chairs. I am intending to use them for other things other than track work too, but I am beginning to think that the Mars 4 or Mars 4 DLP which is projection based may be the one to go for, which is the so-called 2K.

Rich

 

[Steve_Cornford]

Had a delivery of sun PLA+ filament today!
Now just need Kingroon to start fulfilling my order!
Steve
edit to correct nust to just

 

[Steve_Cornford]

Also now have some Geetech JT16 PVP glue sticks.
I think I will hold off ordering a glass bed until I actually get my hands on the printer1
Steve

 

[Martin Wynne]

Also now have some Geetech JT16 PVP glue sticks.
I think I will hold off ordering a glass bed until I actually get my hands on the printer1
Steve

@Steve_Cornford

Hi Steve,

???

It is supposed to be fitted with a glass bed and clips:

Or maybe not?

Martin.

 

[Hayfield]

Steve

My glass bed took a couple of weeks to arrive, when it did it made levelling the bed so much easier and accurate than the flexi mat, my advice would be to order it asap

Working away at the moment on a piece of curved flexitrack

John

 

[Steve_Cornford]

Hi Martin,
I could not find confirmation of glass bed in specifications, but as you have highlighted it does appear to have clips holding something.
Who knows what I wil actually get. I have emailed Kingroon asking for a fulfillment update.
Just a matter of being patient I suppose, but I am looking forward to ability to print jigs (and timberering bricks)
Steve

 

[Hayfield]

Printed this afternoon a nice pre-curved flexi track

More impressive is this is the only bit of stringing apart from the base, as straight from the printer with no scrubbing or sanding, Still set at 185 degrees

 

[Hayfield]

A further test print for a 4mm scale 3' gauge V6 turnout, I used 190 degrees and there is very little stringing and is of very high quality. I now need to try fixing rails to the base, probably using glue and spikes

 

[RBTKraisee]

Hi Richie,
I've recently purchased a 12k machine, and I'm yet to be convinced it is possible to print at 12k. I just don't think the resins are good enough. It does produce lovely prints though, with slightly less shrinkage than the Alkaid machine.
Having now got 7 resin printers the only thing I've learned for certain is that as the resolution increases the longevity of the screen diminishes. I reckon the Alkaid screen would last for donkey's years, I doubt the same could be said for my new Anycubic machine.
I'm sure that either of those printers you are looking at would be excellent. But after a coat of paint I'd be surprised if anyone could tell which printer you'd used to produce a particular part.
My favourite printer to use is the Alkaid one - I don't know why, I just like it.

James

I've just been comparing prints on my Saturn 2 (8K 10.1" screen) and my friend's Saturn 3 Ultra (12K 10.1") using the Elegoo 8K resin (not water washable) and the 12K's 50% extra number of pixels definitely makes a difference. It's hard to tell with the naked eye, both printers produce stunning results, but using my jewelers loupe you can see the difference easily.

Of course, the layer height remains, by far, the more dominant issue. We were using 0.025mm heights and that produces great results on both printers, but you can still see the layers in the expected places, like on the upper surfaces of spheres and such.

My first experiments with ABS-like didn't produce good results and I haven't had time to refine those settings yet, but I do like how the Elegoo 8K resin works really well when mixed 15-20% with Siraya Tenacious to make it significantly less brittle and frangible. That's become my "go to" for almost all my N scale prints right now, including Templot track bases - which are significantly shorter than OO, so *can* be printed as single-piece ready-to-go bases in resin without risking warping.

Ross.

 

[Phil G]

Hi Ross,
Out of interest what is the size of turnout on the kitchen paper?
Cheers,
Phil

 

[RBTKraisee]

It's a simple N gauge B8 with a short 4-sleeper entry and 4-sleeper exit road and a regular V. Overall length 200mm.

I posted the settings (still experimental) over on the N gauge Plug track thread: https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.php?threads/n-gauge-plug-track-question.781/post-8965

Ross.

 

[Hayfield]

Slight hiccup yesterday, I had ordered some resin last week and had an email it was to be delivered yesterday. Well by 6pm it had not arrived so I looked at the tracking only to find a new delivery date of 28th of December

I contacted Amazon and they phoned me back quickly but soon after starting the conversation the line went dead. I arranged another call back and had a long and difficult (a poor crackling line combined with the persons accent )conversation where only parts of what was said were understandable, I asked several times is the resin available in a different colour, to which there were long pauses.

I asked to speak with a manager, one came on quite quickly and the conversation had to be short as I was going out for dinner, again asked if a different colour was available in the same resin, well they are going to phone me back today. After the call I went to turn the computer off and my order was still showing, I checked the availability of other colours, well there was white and black so I ordered a white on which will be delivered next Wednesday. Waiting for Amazon to contact me, but looking at my credit card statement this morning Amazon has taken the money for this latest order, where as I cannot see any debits for last weeks resin order. Don't order the Grey its out of stock !! but still taking orders

 

[Steve_Cornford]

Hi John,

Make sure you have ordered the V2 version of the resin, I think the white you have ordered might not be V2 as that is not available until January
Steve

 

[Martin Wynne]

Slight hiccup yesterday, I had ordered some resin last week and had an email it was to be delivered yesterday. Well by 6pm it had not arrived so I looked at the tracking only to find a new delivery date of 28th of December

I contacted Amazon and they phoned me back quickly but soon after starting the conversation the line went dead. I arranged another call back and had a long and difficult (a poor crackling line combined with the persons accent )conversation where only parts of what was said were understandable, I asked several times is the resin available in a different colour, to which there were long pauses.

I asked to speak with a manager, one came on quite quickly and the conversation had to be short as I was going out for dinner, again asked if a different colour was available in the same resin, well they are going to phone me back today. After the call I went to turn the computer off and my order was still showing, I checked the availability of other colours, well there was white and black so I ordered a white on which will be delivered next Wednesday. Waiting for Amazon to contact me, but looking at my credit card statement this morning Amazon has taken the money for this latest order, where as I cannot see any debits for last weeks resin order. Don't order the Grey its out of stock !! but still taking orders

@Hayfield

Hi John,

N.B. All the V2 water-washable versions are showing out of stock here!

The white version showing available is not water washable. Check what you have ordered.

Non-water-washable are showing at £20 - £23. May be old stock with short shelf life.

Water-washable versions £36.99 all showing Amazon delivery December/January.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Martin Wynne]

@Hayfield

Hi John,

Showing in stock here: https://uk.anycubic.com/products/anycubic-abs-like-resin-v2-package?variant=45845570945309

Claiming 3-5 days from UK. 7-12 days from China.

Martin.

 

[Phil G]

@Hayfield

Hi John,

Showing in stock here: https://uk.anycubic.com/products/anycubic-abs-like-resin-v2-package?variant=45845570945309

Claiming 3-5 days from UK. 7-12 days from China.

Martin.

I just purchased 5 Kg of this yesterday, already got confirmation its on a flight out of china tonight. only down side is its coming via Singapore not direct.
Still very impressive shipping time. it looks as though there were lots of orders during Black Friday.

 

[Hayfield]

I have now re-read the email and it states delivery Wednesday 3rd of Jan, not 6th of December. They have debited my visa account so I have cancelled this order and will keep the 28th of Dec order, which as of yet I have not paid for. Not bothered about waiting for 5 days for a refund as its within the no interest bearing period and I am sure HSBC will not miss it for 5 days

Oh well I can get on with other things like making space for it which is taking longer than I hoped for, plus I have thought up another experiment in 7mm narrow gauge 2'6" (well 2'4" and a bit as I cannot be bothered 17.5mm gauge) gauge this time

 

[Martin Wynne]

@Hayfield

Hi John,

Resin delivery now showing on Amazon this Friday.

If you are a Prime member, you get £10 off.

See: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0C7BFQZ2C/

Martin.

 

[Phil G]

I just purchased 5 Kg of this yesterday, already got confirmation its on a flight out of china tonight. only down side is its coming via Singapore not direct.

Alas my order seems to have taken at least a weeks holiday in Singapore lucky resin is all I can say
cheers
Phil

 

[Hayfield]

Thank you very much and that's my Prime membership paid for this month, might even not cancel the 28th order as that is also £9 off

 

[BetweenTheTunnels]

Thanks for the heads up on the Resin Mart, I have ordered some, and got the discount with being a prime member, and a further 5% off by doing it on a subscription! I may cancel it in the future depending on how much I use when I actually get the printer unboxed!