Getting started with 3D plug track

[BetweenTheTunnels]

If anyone is looking for a cheapish FDM printer, then you can get an Elegoo Neptune 3 Pro, direct from Elegoo for $199, which works out at £157.55.
That works out at 20x 32ft track panels if they were printed in SLS with a print bureau (not that sls is recommended but gives a ball park price).
Having bought a laser cutter last month I did try and resist, but the functionality of the FDM timbering bases was too hard to resist.

Hi Matt,
As a matter of interest, what laser cutter did you go for?
Richie

 

[Matt Smith]

I went for an Algolaser Alpha 22w, I blame Dartside Scenics YouTube channel. Not cracked it open yet, I need to find somewhere it can go and sort out a way of venting the smoke to outside.

 

[Hayfield]

Resin is coming tomorrow and I have done no preparation to get started resin printing. Had made some mental plans ayt the weekend of what I wanted to achieve but failed totally

Taking a few days to get some room to set up the printer and make a space for the water bucket (I definitely don't want to kick this one) then get my head around what needs doing when, still the mother in law can repair her nails after I took James advice of buying a UV nail fixing machine.

Hopefully learning how a FDM printer works will make the learning curve easier for resin printer

Martin I thinh all of us should thank you for getting us all into 3D printer, especially the Chancellor of the Exchequer with you one man attempt at getting the economy going with all the printers we are buying

 

[Martin Wynne]

Hopefully learning how a FDM printer works will make the learning curve easier for resin printer

@Hayfield

Hi John,

I doubt it -- the two machines are completely different!

Remember to clean the build plate before you use it the first time.

These are the Chitubox settings I use for the ABS-Like resin on the Alkaid printer:

These are not the same as in the Alkaid manual. The important one is the bottom exposure time of 35 seconds.

Also make sure on the Advanced tab that this box is unticked:

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Hayfield]

Martin

Again thank you, I meant with my earlier statement that my learning curve would be less steep than before owing to the processes I have learnt with the FDM printer. I do realize that both processes differ greatly and there are new skills and processes to be learnt. However as you realized I started off FDM printing completely unprepared with not even any basic knowledge

Sadly too many distractions going on at the moment, but just obtained £400 compensation from an insurance company for my wife then there is an upcoming Christmas tree festival in 10 days time.

 

[Phil O]

Hi John,

I completely forgot about the 12mm turnout, until now. The dimensions were supplied to me by Dr Alan Gee. Box file attached. I found it on my old laptop.

 

[Hayfield]

Hi John,

I completely forgot about the 12mm turnout, until now. The dimensions were supplied to me by Dr Alan Gee. Box file attached. I found it on my old laptop.

Phil

Thank you very much, I have saved it and when I next revisit my 12mm narrow gauge I will compare it with my own plans which I know have timbers 2mm short. Our Christmas tree layout is now taking up my spare time as three of us have been instructed to decorate a tree at the local Parish Church's Christmas tree festival in 10 days time

 

[KHC1]

Next daft question. I have now set up my Alkaid and done about five prints with a multitude of chairs etc including a V crossing and heal set for an EM B7 rh turnout. Now I am printing the base for B7 Y turnout. Are the V crossing and heal chairs common to all B7 or do I need to separate them out just for the Y.

Keith

 

[Martin Wynne]

Next daft question. I have now set up my Alkaid and done about five prints with a multitude of chairs etc including a V crossing and heal set for an EM B7 rh turnout. Now I am printing the base for B7 Y turnout. Are the V crossing and heal chairs common to all B7 or do I need to separate them out just for the Y.

Keith

@KHC1

Hi Keith,

It's not a daft question. The answer is complex and depends on exactly what you have done with the template. For example changing from regular to curviform V-crossing.

Until I have time to write a detailed explanation book on the subject, you would be well advised to treat the special switch and crossing chairs as unique to the one template they came from and no other.

Not only that, they will only fit properly the right way round, despite some of them looking symmetrical (such as the XN chairs). It's a good idea to run a felt-tip marker along the MS side of the plugs while they are still on the raft.

This does not apply to the interchangeable chairs listed on the heave chairs dialog, which can be made in bulk used anywhere on any template:

Martin.

 

[Penrhos1920]

Should I glue the rail to the P-chairs?

Am I inserting the loose jaws correctly? I’ve built the switch portion of a turnout using loose jaws and it has come out with the gauge a bit narrow and inclined rails.

A while back I calibrated my resin printer exposure and then determined the correct rail profile section by measuring those dimensions that I could and then doing a succession of test prints to determine the others. All this was done with solid jaws.

I’ve now built the switch portion of a turnout using solid jaws. It’s much more difficult getting all the chairs to insert together. This turnout is the other end of the crossover with the first turnout. It has come out with the correct gauge.

 

[Martin Wynne]

@Penrhos1920

Hi Richard,

The usual reason for rail not vertical is that the rail foot is not fitting snugly under the inner jaw. I think I can see that in your photos, although the resin chairs are very difficult to photograph -- being translucent the camera can't focus on them.

I suggest trying increasing dimension G. Also make sure fish angle H is not too flat, about 1.5 is right for most model rail:

How well did your rail fit in the default EMGS section?

The trick to getting the rail to lie nicely in the P slide chairs is to get the set bend angle just right. Also assembly is most convenient if you swap the jaw type for the P chairs. i.e. if all the other jaws are loose-jaw, use solid jaws for the P slide chairs. If all the other chairs are solid-jaw, use loose jaws for the P slide chairs.

There's no harm in gluing the rail to the P chairs if you wish. We are still learning all the tricks -- including what type of glue to use.

Another trick with FDM bases is to put the dropper wire in the middle of the P zone. If you use solid 24swg (0.56mm) TCW (recommended), and press it into the dropper ridges provided, it will help to keep the rail in place and vertical:

https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/copper-wire/0355085

With loose-jaws (and solid P-jaws) dropper wires are soldered to the underside of the rail before assembly:

More info: https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.php?posts/8516

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Richardb]

Just got myself a Creality Ender3 V3 KE, so looking forward to giving experimental plug track a whirl.

 

[Hayfield]

Well done Richard

As a numpty on printers I don't know it, however I have just upgraded to a Neptune 4, or rather got a big brother for my Kingroon on Thursday. Got it working yesterday PM and extremely pleased with it.

Good luck and keep us informed of your progress

John

 

[Richardb]

Thanks, John.

in regards to my printer, It’s priced at entry-level, and technically it’s a bed slinger, but I wouldn't call it an ideal beginner printer, if that makes sense. It needs a bit of tweaking in the slicer and relies on some community accessories to really perform well. For instance, when I printed a cottage from 3D Cults, I had to really dial in the first layer adhesion and use 3D-printed spacers to gauge the bed. Inconsistencies in the bed level can affect that first layer adhesion. I’m even considering upgrading to linear rails to ensure the bed stays as level as possible for a bed slinger.

That said, I’m happy with the tinkering because I wanted to learn about 3D printing and how these machines work, rather than just having a plug-and-play experience.

Hope everything goes well with the Neptune 4

 

[KHC1]

Well done John. I have an Ender 3 pro what revolutionised it for me was installing a CR touch. This automatically alters the Stl to print level. Now I set it to print and can just walk away.

Have fun

Keith

 

[Richardb]

Well done John. I have an Ender 3 pro what revolutionised it for me was installing a CR touch. This automatically alters the Stl to print level. Now I set it to print and can just walk away.

Have fun

Keith

Cheers Keith, the ender 3 V3 KE comes with that sensor out of the box. I think its to do with the 7mm round linear rails and play within the bed support bearings which impacts bed level on the extremities of the build plate. Benchy's and anything in the middle prints wonderfully.

 

[Phil G]

which impacts bed level on the extremities of the build plate. Benchy's and anything in the middle prints wonderfully.

Hi Richard,
That's is a very good point. It would be true to say in most cases plug track timbers, do have a tendency to push the build area to the max, thats especially true for turnouts, as you after can't print the turnout as one part. So its logical to max the bed area.
which then brings into play, the build accuracy of the actual machine.
cheers
Phil

 

[Charles Orr]

Hi Martin,
Could you point me to the link for the Amazon Tweezers that I can fit the the 3D printed jaws to.
Also I'm sure I downloaded your recommended Chitubox config file for the Alkaid printer but I seem to have lost it.
Could you point me to that as well.
Many thanks
Charles

 

[Steve_Cornford]

Hi Charles,

See this post:- https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.php?threads/3d-printers-messin-with-resin.103/page-9#post-12175

Steve

 

[Steve_Cornford]

The tweezers are these:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B08LG6B82W

They are the reverse self-locking type of tweezer, i.e. you release them to lock on to the component, and squeeze them to let go. Very handy, but need getting used to if you are not familiar with them.

Here is the relevant bit from that post.

Steve

 

[Martin Wynne]

@Charles Orr @Steve_Cornford

Hi Charles,

The latest supplies of those tweezers seem to have a much stronger lock action -- almost too much for the 4mm scale loose pins, and making them uncomfortable to use for long periods. This is what makes recommending stuff from the far east so unpredictable.

But just to do that very thing, I found a set of fine-tipped tweezers in Lidl some time ago which are excellent. I tend to use them in preference nowadays. No longer available from Lidl at present, but these ones on Ebay appear to be the same thing, in the roll-up fabric storage. They might not be of course -- no way of knowing without getting them to find out:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/355299207242

cheers,

Martin.

 

[gray]

Hi. I'm new to the forum so please forgive me if I've asked something in the wrong bit. I've got right through creating CC chairs in a group then viewing in the 3D viewer but I'm unable to save it on to the computer or stick , I keep getting a message about possible duplicate files or not enough room on the floppy disk! . No matter what I try I can't save the STL, it looks ok in the viewer. Thanks

 

[James Walters]

Hi Gray,
Have you included a space in the file name. That can sometimes cause an issue with saving.
Try again leaving no spaces or using an underscore (_) instead of a space. That should solve the problem.
If not, let us know and I'm sure someone will be along with another suggestion.

Hope that helps,
James

 

[gray]

Hi Gray,
Have you included a space in the file name. That can sometimes cause an issue with saving.
Try again leaving no spaces or using an underscore (_) instead of a space. That should solve the problem.
If not, let us know and I'm sure someone will be along with another suggestion.

Hope that helps,
James

I think I did. I'll try again tomorrow. Thanks for your help

 

[gray]

Hi Gray,
Have you included a space in the file name. That can sometimes cause an issue with saving.
Try again leaving no spaces or using an underscore (_) instead of a space. That should solve the problem.
If not, let us know and I'm sure someone will be along with another suggestion.

Hope that helps,
James

Hi. This worked, Thank you. Now my only problem is trying to get 1 or more timbers with CC chairs on both ends straight.. hours of fun from templot, it's amazing

 

[Steve_Cornford]

Hi Gray,

Now my only problem is trying to get 1 or more timbers with CC chairs on both ends straight.. hours of fun from templot, it's amazing

What exactly do you mean by this?
Steve

 

[gray]

Hi Gray,

What exactly do you mean by this?
Steve

I was just trying to create a section of straight track with check rail chairs , I couldn't get the chair's to sit parallel on the timber doing it near the switch blades . I lengthened a turnout, lengthend the check rails on the straight road backed it up so I just had the straight bit left then changed all the chairs on one side so they are all CC's . Sorry for any confusion

 

[Martin Wynne]

I was just trying to create a section of straight track with check rail chairs , I couldn't get the chair's to sit parallel on the timber doing it near the switch blades . I lengthened a turnout, lengthend the check rails on the straight road backed it up so I just had the straight bit left then changed all the chairs on one side so they are all CC's . Sorry for any confusion

@gray

Hi Gray,

Welcome to Templot Club.

To create CC chairs in bulk, extend the MS check rail back into the approach track. The chairs will change to CC automatically:

You can shove the sleepers closer together, or set a custom sleeper spacing, to bunch them up on a raft if desired.

Note that you can do this only with the MS check rail. If you want CC chairs on both rails, switch the TS rail off, then create a duplicate partial template and swap the hand. Don't forget to store the second one for exporting.

If you are trying to create a length of plain tack with continuous check rail, do the above and then shorten the turnout part back to zero. Put the peg on CTRL+1, store the template, and then geometry > mirror template. This works for straight or curved track.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[gray]

@gray

Hi Gray,

Welcome to Templot Club.

To create CC chairs in bulk, extend the MS check rail back into the approach track. The chairs will change to CC automatically:


View attachment 11684


You can shove the sleepers closer together, or set a custom sleeper spacing, to bunch them up on a raft if desired.

Note that you can do this only with the MS check rail. If you want CC chairs on both rails, switch the TS rail off, then create a duplicate partial template and swap the hand. Don't forget to store the second one for exporting.

cheers,

Martin.

Thanks and Ok thanks. I'll try that

 

[gray]

@gray

Hi Gray,

Welcome to Templot Club.

To create CC chairs in bulk, extend the MS check rail back into the approach track. The chairs will change to CC automatically:


View attachment 11684


You can shove the sleepers closer together, or set a custom sleeper spacing, to bunch them up on a raft if desired.

Note that you can do this only with the MS check rail. If you want CC chairs on both rails, switch the TS rail off, then create a duplicate partial template and swap the hand. Don't forget to store the second one for exporting.

If you are trying to create a length of plain tack with continuous check rail, do the above and then shorten the turnout part back to zero. Put the peg on CTRL+1, store the template, and then geometry > mirror template. This works for straight or curved track.

cheers,

Martin.

This was much easier, thanks

 

[Terry Downes]

Hi Martin, I want to generate some 4mm resin chairs for 1.5mm thick ply timbers. I assume I need to adjust the 'PRESS-fit plug depths ...' settings? I will have a play around but, I was wondering whether there was a diagram or sketch which explained each of the setting dimensions? if not, I'll play around and try and create one for future reference etc.

 

[GSM]

Just got myself a Creality Ender3 V3 KE, so looking forward to giving experimental plug track a whirl.

it works really well ion both PLA and ABS. you may need to play around with bed temperature a bit to get optimal results. for PLA the pritt stick coating (PVA?) works excelently and I now use it routinely for timber printing . when pressing the more temperamental ABS the Caption type stuck to the bed is very helpful.

 

[Martin Wynne]

pritt stick coating (PVA?)

Hi George,

I don't know the composition of your pritt-stick. How old is it? If it's one of the recent non-toxic, child-friendly glue sticks, it will be almost useless for 3D printing. Older stock is better. The glue for the job is PVP (Polyvinyl Pyrrolidone), easily available, for 3D printing:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08D6PJTWN

Search around for best prices. Make sure it says PVP on the label.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[GSM]

Hi George,

I don't know the composition of your pritt-stick. How old is it? If it's one of the recent non-toxic, child-friendly glue sticks, it will be almost useless for 3D printing. Older stock is better. The glue for the job is PVP (Polyvinyl Pyrrolidone), easily available, for 3D printing:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08D6PJTWN

Search around for best prices. Make sure it says PVP on the label.

cheers,

Martin.

just got a brand new supply of new stuff. It is working a dream . I guess that any Poly final derivative is going to work reasonable well given the chemistry involved. PVP is probably the best if you have it.

George

 

[Martin Wynne]

just got a brand new supply of new stuff. It is working a dream . I guess that any Poly final derivative is going to work reasonable well given the chemistry involved. PVP is probably the best if you have it.

@GSM

Hi George,

That's strange. I obtained some of this:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B004QFI99Y

and found it completely useless for 3D printing. That was on a glass bed -- I haven't tried it on a textured PEI bed. It's certainly cheaper.

Claims to be 97% potatoes, sugar and water.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Terry Downes]

Hi Martin, I want to generate some 4mm resin chairs for 1.5mm thick ply timbers. I assume I need to adjust the 'PRESS-fit plug depths ...' settings? I will have a play around but, I was wondering whether there was a diagram or sketch which explained each of the setting dimensions? if not, I'll play around and try and create one for future reference etc.

View attachment 11948

after exporting dxf into CAD I get the following. I'm not sure about the locator plug depth of 12.0mm

 

[Steve_Cornford]

Hi Terry,
Suggest you use the default depth, and instead cut sockets into your cork trackbed using just the timbsock layer as discussed previously.

Steve

 

[Martin Wynne]

@Terry Downes

Hi Terry,

I was just in the middle of making that very diagram when I got distracted by glue-sticks.

I'm sure I have posted it before, but I can't find it.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Steve_Cornford]

Hi Terry,
The locator plug depth is only used when you tick the locator plugs tick box. Extra long plugs with no chair on top for temporarily locating your 1.6mm timbers into trackbed sockets.

Dont forget that when you export there is a shrinkage setting for x,y,z which affects the dimensions of the resultant objects in the export file.

unless you were using the 3-D for CAD button


Steve
edited to add the export screen & comment

 

[Martin Wynne]

Hi Terry,
Suggest you use the default depth, and instead cut sockets into your cork trackbed using just the timbsock layer as discussed previously.

Steve

@Terry Downes

Hi Terry,

You certainly need to do that if you intend to use loose outer jaws. If you shorten the plug depth you will be shortening the loose jaw pins too. Shortened pins make the loose jaws difficult or even impossible to assemble.

If you make the loose jaws separately with long pins, you would need to make a track-building fixture which allows them to project below the underside of the timbers, turning the assembly over afterwards to trim them flush.

cheers,

Martin.