Experimental 3D plug track - up to version 244c

[Steve_Cornford]

Hi James,
Your sketch makes everything clear, thank you.

Can I assume from your suggestion that yuk ou have managed to source some flat cork sheet?

If so, would you be willing to experiment with cutting a sockets only cork trackbed if I sent you a DFX file?
ideally from a cork sheet at least 3mm thick.

What size sheet can you accommodate?
Regards Steve

 

[James Walters]

Hi James,
Your sketch makes everything clear, thank you.

Can I assume from your suggestion that yuk ou have managed to source some flat cork sheet?

If so, would you be willing to experiment with cutting a sockets only cork trackbed if I sent you a DFX file?
ideally from a cork sheet at least 3mm thick.

What size sheet can you accommodate?
Regards Steve

Hi Steve,

Yes, very happy to cut some cork for you. I’ll send you an email later when I’m home from work. I can cut 1400 x 900mm.

Best,

James

 

[Steve_Cornford]

Hi Martin,
I would like to report that the new "brick" tickbox, and the [change to active colour], and [set active colour] on the BOX window work really well.
Thank you for adding them.

Cheers Steve

 

[Martin Wynne]

Just arrived -- yet another 3D printer!

@James Walters

I have now made a few chairs on the Geeetech Alkaid printer, and at the second attempt they are excellent and identical with ones from the Mars. I can't see any difference.

For the first attempt I used the recommended Alkaid settings with 2-second exposure. It was obviously insufficient -- the rafts didn't stick properly to the build plate and the finished chairs felt soft and sticky, even after washing. 10 minutes in the UV unit cured that, and they are now just about usable, if I'm desperate.

So I changed to using all the same settings as on the Mars, with exposure time 2.25 seconds. The results are fine, and mean this inexpensive little printer is great for plug track, and probably a lot else. (Using Elegoo ABS-Like grey resin, I haven't tried any others.)

There are very few niggles resulting from the cost-saving -- the USB socket is at the back, which is not very convenient. It's also upside down. It's there because it is part of the control board which is mounted there for the power socket and on-off switch. But I found a short USB extension cable which can be left on there, so that problem is solved. If you haven't got one to hand, add this to your next Amazon order:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00DX59EAG

I took one look at the plate levelling cap screws and decided they needed washers under them. So that's what they got. Other than that there is nothing really to complain about, it's a very well-made no-frills small resin printer. I will leave James to do a full review and video, and try it for stuff other than plug track.

Not forgetting the little tweezers. I know what I will be using them for, but as to what they are intended for I can't find any explanation.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Michael Woods]

Hi Martin - sorry for dumb question. I am going to have a second practice run at a point, this time with lose jaws.

I have the STLs for the chairs but cannot see the jaws....any clues as to what I may have missed...

Many thanks

 

[Phil G]

Hi Phil, does the sketch make it clearer?

Hi James,
thanks for this, on the sketch it looks as though your proposing burning pockets right out of the top layer of the cork is that correct?

Maybe I am missing something here, but on your Bexhill west youTube S2 E24 you talk about engraving the track outline on the cork.
I have assumed your actually laser etching the cork when you say engraving. That could be an error on my part.

Anyway, my question is if you can etch/engrave, which in reality is partly burning out some of the cork as an outline. Why can't you burn out out the shape of the whole timber? I Assume its not that hard to control the depth of the burn and thus control how much the timber would sit proud of the cork.
I guess the down side with engraving such a large area is the possibility of a fire ! not sure.
The upside is if the bottom of the cork is on the baseboard and the top of the rail is the constant we are looking for, then the thickness of the timbering can vary, and could be accommodated for by varying the depth of the burn in the cork layer.
Take this one step further and you would then be burning out the area of the FDM web where it exists, and on the area of a timber if it was a laser cut timber. Ergo mixing and matching track with webs and without webs is no longer an issue.
Clearly it would mean access to a laser is required, but if you have one..
cheers
Phil,

 

[Martin Wynne]

@Michael Woods

Hi Michael,

You need to make a separate raft containing the loose jaws. You do that by changing the settings for the control template, storing it and exporting it as a separate template, see:

Or you can interweave the chairs and jaws on the same raft by superimposing the two templates and offsetting them by half a timber space. Like this:

That's the best option for the special chairs, so that you know which jaw belongs with which chair. But for the ordinary interchangeable chairs, it is better to make them in bulk on their own raft.

Sorry that's a bit brief, I will write some more tomorrow. It's been a long day today.

Before long I'm also intending to post a lot of ready-made STLs to create a library of chairs for the common requirements, such as a set of chairs for a B-switch, or whatever. I'm hesitating because I'm reluctant to post stuff until I've test printed it myself and proved it's correct and fits the rail etc. and I haven't made any silly mistakes. But it might take a while before I can do them for S scale.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[James Walters]

Hi James,
thanks for this, on the sketch it looks as though your proposing burning pockets right out of the top layer of the cork is that correct?

Maybe I am missing something here, but on your Bexhill west youTube S2 E24 you talk about engraving the track outline on the cork.
I have assumed your actually laser etching the cork when you say engraving. That could be an error on my part.

Anyway, my question is if you can etch/engrave, which in reality is partly burning out some of the cork as an outline. Why can't you burn out out the shape of the whole timber? I Assume its not that hard to control the depth of the burn and thus control how much the timber would sit proud of the cork.
I guess the down side with engraving such a large area is the possibility of a fire ! not sure.
The upside is if the bottom of the cork is on the baseboard and the top of the rail is the constant we are looking for, then the thickness of the timbering can vary, and could be accommodated for by varying the depth of the burn in the cork layer.
Take this one step further and you would then be burning out the area of the FDM web where it exists, and on the area of a timber if it was a laser cut timber. Ergo mixing and matching track with webs and without webs is no longer an issue.
Clearly it would mean access to a laser is required, but if you have one..
cheers
Phil,

Hi Phil,

Yes, that was the idea. A second layer of cork which sits atop the timbering brick with holes cut through for the timbers to poke through, leaving the minimum thickness for ballasting.

As I said previously this was just an idea, and possibly not a very good one.

You are correct that at present I am engraving the templot layout onto my cork base layer as a guide to help me layout my laser cut timbering.

In theory, it would be possible to engrave pockets as you suggest. However, I think (as you suggest) there would be fire risk, and the products of combustion will likely block the laser spout. It's worth a try though. I'm currently working flat out preparing for Scaleforum. When that's out of the way I'll have an experiment and report back.

Whilst I'm here, just a quick note to say I'm not ignoring your email to me re., point actuators. I have an idea which might be good for you but my head is so full at the moment I've not properly thought it through. Will email you at the weekend.

Best,

James

 

[Phil G]

I'm currently working flat out preparing for Scaleforum. When that's out of the way I'll have an experiment and report back.

Hi James,
Fully understand Scaleforum will be taking up a lot of your time, there certainly no rush.
I have a 10W diode laser, which is likely under powered, however I am still in the process of building an enclosure for it, to use it safely. Once done I will be giving it crack myself.
re note no problem at all
cheers
Phil

 

[Phil G]

So I changed to using all the same settings as on the Mars, except for increasing the exposure time to 3 seconds. The results are fine, and mean this inexpensive little printer is great for plug track, and probably a lot else. (Using Elegoo ABS-Like grey resin, I haven't tried any others.)

Hi Martin,
I have been doing a bit of a deep dive on the web re the Alkaid resin printer more out of interest and what drives the lower cost.
it seems there are two key drivers,
1, the resolution is only 2K same as the Mars 2. However most current models have moved onto 4K resolution, and are in fact moving closer to 8K. certainly on the bigger machines.
2, The backlight LCD has a lower power rating, which almost certainly explains why you noted the need to increase the exposure time.
That's not an issue in itself, it just means print times will be longer.

if you combine the two points that will be the main reason for the lower cost.

I believe one can safely assume this model will not be in the market that long, as its really using soon to be obsolete Chitubox supplied components.
So its not a bad idea to get one now or very soon. Whilst there still avaible, assuming they are fit for chair manufacturing purpose which it sounds as though they are.
cheers
Phil,

 

[Martin Wynne]

1, the resolution is only 2K same as the Mars 2. However most current models have moved onto 4K resolution, and are in fact moving closer to 8K. certainly on the bigger machines.

@Phil G

Hi Phil,

I've been taking this doubling of resolution with a pinch of salt.

Raw resolution (dots per inch) means nothing if you don't know the resolving power -- and it's noticeable that manufacturers don't publish that. Resolving power is the ability to generate distinct dots. For example if you draw rows of thin parallel lines on the screen, how thin and closely spaced can they be before you can no longer detect each line separately with a space between each one.

Having two dots instead of one, doubling the so-called resolution, is no help at all if the light from one of them spills over into the space occupied by its neighbour. You may just as well remain with a single dot which doesn't do that, or does it much less.

The Mars 2 printer has a resolution of 2560 dots in 5" or 512 dpi (dots per inch). So-called 2K.

The human eye can resolve images only up to about 300 dpi at normal reading distance. So even if the Mars suffers some light spillage between the dots, it is still likely to do better than the human eye. With the result that the layer lines or fine detail on the chairs can't be seen at reading distance. Which is true for me. Admittedly my eyes are 75 years old and yours probably aren't, but even so I doubt you can see it much better. At normal viewing distance of a model railway, there is no chance of seeing it. Close-up photos show that the chair screws have square heads, and with a better printer they might be even squarer. But if we can't see them, getting a better printer is wasted effort and cost. I put them there for the benefit of Gauge 1 modellers.

The lower-cost Alkaid printer appears to match the Mars 2 printer specs, and may even contain the same components from Chitu Systems:

https://www.chitusystems.com/product/chitu-l-v3/

or clones of them. That's why the only slicer it supports is Chitubox.

Which means it's fine for our purposes, and we just need to find the optimum settings. On close examination I think I may have overdone it at 3 seconds exposure, perhaps 2.5 seconds may be better. Which matches what most users of the Mars 2 are doing with the Elegoo ABS-Like resin.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Phil G]

Hi Martin,
No argument from me on anything you wrote,
my point was really, even if a so called 2K resolution is fit for purpose, and it clearly is. They no longer make the 2K version.
All backlite LCD screens no matter which brand, are actually made in the Chitubox Chinese factory.
Given all the other bands appear to have moved to the 4K screen stock, Either Alkaid will follow suit with there next model, or in my opinion anyway, simply fold when the stock is exhausted.
Now is the time to grab a great deal, I for one am seriously looking to add one if these to my stable, just working out if two resin printers makes sense for me.
cheers
Phil,

 

[Martin Wynne]

Given all the other bands appear to have moved to the 4K screen stock, Either Alkaid will follow suit with there next model, or in my opinion anyway, simply fold when the stock is exhausted. Now is the time to grab a great deal, I for one am seriously looking to add one if these to my stable, just working out if two resin printers makes sense for me.

@Phil G

Hi Phil,

I doubt Geeetech will fold, they make lots of stuff:

https://geeetech.en.alibaba.com/company_profile.html

I notice on the box the Alkaid came in there are two tick-boxes -- "Alkaid" and "Alkaid Plus". Neither were ticked. I can't find much about the Alkaid Plus, but it may be the 4K version you mention. Presumably at lower cost than most others.

My reason for getting it was not to use it -- the Mars 2 is fine. The reason was to find out if it is usable for plug track and what tweaks might be needed to do so. I have found from experience that it is utterly impossible to find proper answers about anything from online videos, reviews and web sites. The only way is to get one and see.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Phil O]

@James Walters

I have now made a few chairs on the Geeetech Alkaid printer, and at the second attempt they are excellent and identical with ones from the Mars. I can't see any difference. Possibly the loose-jaw slots are a fraction undersize, but that can be changed in the settings.

For the first attempt I used the recommended Alkaid settings with 2-second exposure. It was obviously insufficient -- the rafts didn't stick properly to the build plate and the finished chairs felt soft and sticky, even after washing. 10 minutes in the UV unit cured that, and they are now just about usable, if I'm desperate.

So I changed to using all the same settings as on the Mars, except for increasing the exposure time to 3 seconds. The results are fine, and mean this inexpensive little printer is great for plug track, and probably a lot else. (Using Elegoo ABS-Like grey resin, I haven't tried any others.)

There are very few niggles resulting from the cost-saving -- the USB socket is at the back, which is not very convenient. It's also upside down. It's there because it is part of the control board which is mounted there for the power socket and on-off switch. But I found a short USB extension cable which can be left on there, so that problem is solved. I took one look at the plate levelling cap screws and decided they needed washers under them. So that's what they got. Other than that there is nothing really to complain about, it's a very well-made no-frills small resin printer. I will leave James to do a full review and video, and try it for stuff other than plug track.

Not forgetting the little tweezers. I know what I will be using them for, but as to what they are intended for I can't find any explanation.

cheers,

Martin.

Martin,

I think that you're leading me into temptation, when I return from my holiday. Hopefully my fortitude may have returned by the time I return.

If I can master 3d CAD, to do more than produce chairs, my resistance will collapse.

 

[Martin Wynne]

.
Another day, another menu item.

copy for brick is the same as copy to the control, with the addition that the peg is shifted to the CTRL-1 position after copying.

This avoids inadvertently modifying the template or changing any timber positions when shortening or blanking the template for use in a timbering brick (if the copied template had the peg in some other position). This is important for plain track especially. The position of the fixing peg is irrelevant in 3D exports.

I've given this the orange prominence because it is needed very frequently when preparing timbering bricks. You can also press # if you prefer a keyboard shortcut for faster work, once the menu is showing.

Will be in 241c.

Martin.

 

[Martin Wynne]

.
I've written some notes about how to use the filing jigs, see:

https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.php?threads/using-the-rail-filing-jigs.728/

Martin.

 

[Steve_Cornford]

Teaser for Phil,
Here is a shot if a test piece if OO-SF plain track with 1.6mm laser cut ply timbers, with a track bed that had laser cut sockets, before ballasting.

However, this is with fixed jaw chairs & more dates the option for loose jaw chairs.
Please note that as advised by the laser cutting bureau, the socket width was reduced from 2mm to 1.7mm to comply with the constraint that minimum width between cuts should be 0.8mm.
Ie sleeper width 3.3mm minus 1.7mm gives 1.6mm, split each side of the socket to give 0.8mm.
When resin printing the chairs I adjusted the plug width(each side) by -0.15mm.
I doubt that this would work for loose jaw chairs as I believe the slot width is 1.6mm.

Food for thought.
Steve

 

[James Walters]

Last night I began assembling my first full turnout with laser cut timbers. The results are looking very encouraging indeed. Last few check chairs still to be fitted.
All files are directly from Templot, except the label which I have engraved onto the plywood for my own reference.

If Martin doesn't object, I'll start a new topic specifically for laser cut timbering with the intention for it being a place whereby how-to posts, and pictures of successful outcomes cab be posted. Hopefully in time this could become a good starting point for those wishing to get into lasering plywood/card, etc.

For now, this has been cut with a 0.4mm Kerf setting, & 0.6mm NIB settings. The SNIBS have been set to 0, to allow the waste between the timbers to drop away.
Chairs are a mixture of Push Fit and Clip-Fit. It is my opinion that Clip-Fit is the better option with plywood. Both work well though.

No prizes for pointing out the chair which I have clumsily broken.

When the turnout is complete, I'll post a complete walk-through of my process with screen shots etc and post it into a new topic.

 

[Martin Wynne]

If Martin doesn't object, I'll start a new topic specifically for laser cut timbering with the intention for it being a place whereby how-to posts, and pictures of successful outcomes cab be posted. Hopefully in time this could become a good starting point for those wishing to get into lasering plywood/card, etc.

@James Walters

Hi James,

Of course I don't object. That's what we are here for.

Many thanks for those photos, it's looking great. I'm looking forward to seeing the finished turnout.

You probably don't realise how much of a buzz it gives me to see the results when folks take my ideas and run with them. It makes it all worthwhile. Many thanks.

Just a reminder everyone -- to see photos here in full hi-res, click on them twice and drag them around. Or at least, that's how it works in Firefox.

Martin.

 

[Steve_Cornford]

Hi James, how thick is your ply?

why 0.4mm kerf?
Is that the minimum width of cut for your particular laser?
Looking good !
Steve

 

[Phil G]

Hi James,
Same question as Steve re ply thickness, also have you stained the wood, which it does look as though you have. Or is that the burn effect?
Anyway well done its looking very good indeed.

what I really like about the laser option, in addition to it looking like true timbers, is the ability to cut the full turnout in one go.
I can see on something complicated such as a scissors crossover, whilst unlikely to be generated as a single all in one timber layout.(unless you have a very big laser bed)
It could be done as say 2 half's. Which would be so much less complicated than having to generated it is lots of part timber bricks.
from there its simply make the custom chairs and plug then in exactly as per Martins original concept
Admitting we are still some way of being able to make a plug track scissors crossover. Maybe Scaleforum 2024
cheers
Phil,

 

[Martin Wynne]

.
Bug warning

When blanking a length of plain track by mouse action, e.g. for a timbering brick, you will momentarily see this condition between having a full timber and having no timber:

Which will make a mess of your timbering brick.

When using the blanking function, be sure to watch for this. Make sure you have the rails fully across a timber, or entirely clear of it.

I will see what I can do about this.

Martin.

 

[James Walters]

HI Steve and Phil,

I'm using 3mm Finnish Birch Ply here.
The laser Kerf is nominally 0.2mm, that is to say 0.1mm cut either side of the lasers centre line. This is fairly typical.

The 'actual' kerf is subject to several variables.
1. The thickness of the material - the kerf tends to taper through the material. Imagine a V shape being drawn along the cut line, with the bottom of the V running on the underside of the material. As the material thickness increases so does the spacing at the top of the V. I hope that makes sense.
2. The material itself. I regularly use 4 types/grades of plywood in the range of thicknesses we are likely to want to use for Plug Track.
Each has slightly different characteristics and requires a different cutting strategy to get the best results. See 3.
The moisture content of the material can have a significant effect also and is often overlooked. I
3. Cut Strategy. Essentially, this is a case of selecting a speed in mm/sec and the power as a percentage of the maximum available from the laser. In my case 130W. Put simply, thick materials would be cut on low speed/high power and thinner materials high speed/low power.
In practice it's not quite so simple as other factors such as cleanliness of the optics also play a part. First I test each material, record settings and outcomes and the results are now pretty reliable.

It's worth remembering that there are variables around the resin printed chairs also, and the difference between a good plug-fit and a glue-fit are small. In my experiments I have tried to aim for a good plug-fit as per Martin's original intentions and I'm delighted with the results. This was achieved by setting the Kerf to 0.4mm in Templot, which on the face of it sounds as thought my machine is vastly inaccurate. In reality its a factor of all the variables above and the desire to achieve a 'fit' rather than a notional measurement.

Interestingly, you'll see in the photos that the kerf looks very wide. In the photos you are looking at the top surface of the cut piece. If I flip the part over you'd see the Kerf underneath is very fine indeed.
I experimented fitting the chairs from either side, as well as experimenting with a variety of Kerf widths before settling on what I found worked best for me.

When I have repeated all these tests with thinner plywood's and different types of plywood I'll upload a table on here with what has worked best for me with the caveat others' machines will likely perform differently.
As I have said before though, I am quite convinced that one of the smaller budget machines will be more than capable of doing a great job of this.

Phil, Yes I did stain the timbers. Ronseal Jacobean Dark Oak.
My next significant project will be a one-piece scissors crossing for Bexhill West. I hope to be able to do much of it using plug track.

All the best,

James

 

[Phil G]

Hi James,
Thanks for the detailed reply great information. The staining looks fantastic by the way.
would I be right in assuming your using lightburn as you laser software?
if so a few of questions if you don't mind.
1,
how is light burn handing Martin's DXF files? I am only asking this question as I have read quite a bit about lightburn and one area which interests me is a comment light burn does not overly like DFX files that generate lots of small vector points, (on say a curved rail that's unavoidable) but for a straight line (rail) you only need the vector points at each end of the line.
Clearly the evidence is its working, just wondering if you have to do anything other than load the Templot generated DXF file?

2
If I am reading your post correctly your setting your focal point as either the top or the bottom of the timber I have assumed the
top.
I am asking this as there are several posts on YouTube suggesting to minimise the V kerf, which is a natural feature of the laser process. The focal point should be the middle of the work piece. Would you agree with this concept?

3, lastly I personally would not object to using something like a drop of PVA glue on the bottom of or in the plug slot itself, not to allow a bigger plug/socket tolerance, as that would impact the auto gauging concept, but just to ensure the plug does not work loose overtime.
Reading your post it dawned on me, what would happen if the timber was burnt upside down, thus putting the thickness of kerf on the bottom? Thus making it easier for glue to seep in between the plug and the socket.
Fully understanding the bottom of the work with a laser always has more burn effect. which could be a bigger negative than an inverted V kerf positive. what's your view on that one?

By the way very much look forward to seeing the scissors crossing on Bexhill West
cheers
Phil,

 

[Trevor]

Hello,
I have been following this since the beginning and finally decided to get myself a resin printer as show by your latest acquisition.
I have ordered a washer/curing device and some water washable grey resin from the same source.
I all ready have a FDM RepRapPro Mendel printer obtained some years ago so should be able to join in the fun.
I set the FDM printer up some years ago but never actually printed anything and it has been under wraps ever since.
I will have to have a go at printing some FDM track bases
trevor

 

[James Walters]

Hi Phil,

Yes, I'm using Lightburn and it handles Templot created .DXF's perfectly, no-post processing required at all. For what it's worth Lightburn is my preferred software.

You are quite right, setting the focal point lower will also have an effect upon the Kerf width and is a variable I forgot to mention earlier.

I'm afraid I set my focal length using a block of wood from the top surface. No doubt there is scope for experiment to improve things.
However I like the simplicity of using the same setting for most jobs as it's one less variable to worry about.
It just so happens that this particular set-up has worked well for me. I also like the ever-so slightly rounded corners which this gives to the top of the timbers. Timbers/Sleepers often are distressed along their edges.
By dropping the focal length into the material the top corners can be made almost perfectly square which to me looks a little wrong.

There is certainly lots of scope to experiment with though to find what works best for our own particular use cases.
Concrete sleepers would be one application whereby the tapered cut could be exploited to accurately represent the prominent draft angle present on the sleepers, with the manufacturers name engraved onto the top. Acrylic sheet might be a nice material for those.

Best,
James

 

[James Walters]

Hello,
I have been following this since the beginning and finally decided to get myself a resin printer as show by your latest acquisition.
I have ordered a washer/curing device and some water washable grey resin from the same source.
I all ready have a FDM RepRapPro Mendel printer obtained some years ago so should be able to join in the fun.
I set the FDM printer up some years ago but never actually printed anything and it has been under wraps ever since.
I will have to have a go at printing some FDM track bases
trevor

Great stuff Trevor, let us know how you get on.

Be warned, it can become addictive.

 

[Martin Wynne]

how is light burn handing Martin's DXF files? I am only asking this question as I have read quite a bit about lightburn and one area which interests me is a comment light burn does not overly like DFX files that generate lots of small vector points, (on say a curved rail that's unavoidable) but for a straight line (rail) you only need the vector points at each end of the line.
Clearly the evidence is its working, just wondering if you have to do anything other than load the Templot generated DXF file?

@Phil G

Hi Phil,

All the curves in a Templot track DXF are comprised of multiple short straight lines. This might be a problem for those who are using the rails to generate webs between the timbers. A daft idea in my view, putting the web in the most difficult place to remove it from, but lots of folks seem to do it.

However, plug track doesn't do that -- there aren't any curves in a plug track timbering base. The timbers and sockets are rectangular, even on curved track.

But the curved items in the background shapes (circle and ellipse) are exported as proper curved elements. If used to laser-cut a turntable well, for example.

Martin.

 

[Martin Wynne]

@James Walters

Frustrating. I'm trying to get some FDM bricks printed which James can have on his stand at Scaleforum. I have used a few assorted connector clip options just to illustrate the possibilities:

Each brick takes about 10 hours to print. That's not a problem, I have no shortage of jobs to get on with while they are printing. But I've just noticed a silly mistake on one of them -- one timber has a couple of sockets missing. Because the chair heaving function is not yet done, to get the required chairs I had to split out one timber on its own template. Which works fine -- but not if you forget to include it in the brick.

So that's the chair heaving function bumped to the top of the list. Which is not difficult in itself, but it means re-working a chunk of the BOX file to suit -- another silly mistake made earlier when I failed to make adequate provision for chair data in the file. So not a 5-minute task.

The above is a 1:7.5 curved crossover in P4 with long timbers. With a C switch on the outer turnout and a B switch on the inner. With a loop line alongside. I was hoping to do something a bit more complex, a tandem turnout. But again without the chair heaving it was all but impossible to get the right chairs where I wanted them without splitting out a dozen extra partial templates. We also need the S1O and S1N bolted half-chairs for tandems. They shouldn't be too difficult and I will probably do them next.

It was suggested that plug track should be on display at Scaleforum and James has kindly agreed to host a display on his demo stand. Thanks James. But I wasn't sure that it was really ready for such exposure, and after today I'm even less sure. We may now be able to ditch the "experimental" word -- I'm not expecting any significant redesigns now. But there is another word we must use to replace it -- "unfinished".

Yes, we can now make single turnouts, and James has built a great laser-cut demo turnout. But there is so much more to Templot track than single turnouts -- you can buy kits for those! We want to make double-junctions, tandem turnouts, outside slips, and complex flowing junction layouts. There is so much still to do. It is important that anyone showing interest in plug track understands that. I can hear all the "what about?s" now.

Martin.

 

[Phil G]

Hi Martin,
Just watching your Alkaid link when your latest post popped up.
which I thought very apt as in weird way there directly related to each other.

I am glad you are thinking of dropping the ""experimental word, only because that has the connotation it may all yet come to nought. maybe "unfinished" or "further work being undertaken" is the right way to describe the plug track concept going forward.

I am not sure you need to go beyond showing a simple left or right hand single turnout, at any public show at this stage.

I for one would argue your curved crossover is already far more advanced than anything else that can be made in the modelling community, short of fully hand built track.

Maybe the pubic launch for plug track should focus on the following key points,

1, Any scale can be generated as per Templot.
2, Its being evolved as a plug and play system IE no need to worry about track gauges or complicated soldering. (some of the more complex items are currently still under construction however)
3, currently able to make single left or right hand REA turnouts either straight or curved. These can also be made into a crossover.
4, Can generate exact filing jigs for vee rails and switch blades,
5, chairs are made on an LCD resin printer once plug track exports the STL files of the chairs required (hence the link to the now affordable Alkaid resin printer)
6, currently there are two options for the timbers, these can either be made on an FDM type printer using the SLT files that are generated within plug track. Or cut from plywood using a laser printer. Plug track will generate the DXF file required for this operation.
7 CNC machined timbers are also another option that is being worked on.

The real point of all of this is simply to show the modeling community, plug track as a concept clearly does work, and people should be
aware its there, as a "working" but still under further development progress feature, of the current Templot release.

As such I would absolutely encourage you, via James stand to show plug track at Scale forum next week. Its simply too good to keep under wraps.

Cheers
Phil,

 

[Phil G]

Hi Martin,
just as an after thought. Given I know you don't like leaving loose ends, maybe the slab and Bracket "AA" chair, should also be bumped up the importance list. Right behind the chair heaving and before S1O and S1N chairs.
that would give you 100% correct REA single turnouts, and then tandem turnouts.
cheers
Phil,

 

[Martin Wynne]

that would give you 100% correct REA single turnouts

@Phil G

Thanks Phil.

The turnouts are 100% correct for REA now. At least as far as the "A" chair is concerned. The original REA designs were for cast A chairs, as had been used on pre-grouping track for years. And still remained in use for many years after grouping. The slab & bracket design was later developed as a lower-maintenance option, originally for heavy-traffic running lines.

Where we are departing from the REA is on the C chair, which should be inside-keyed (and also on some heel chairs for E and F switches). Inside keying isn't possible for 00 and EM wheel flanges, so I have provided a loose middle jaw insert instead. Inside keying is ok for P4, but that will have to remain another unfinished loose end for the present.

Martin.

 

[Phil G]

Hi Martin,
I stand corrected, and my terminology of 100% should have been better defined. My understanding, which could be wrong, is the slab and bracket design, whilst I agree was not introduced at the time of the REA uptake. Was added within a few short years of the REA adoption. Ergo whist the cast A chair is correct, its only strictly correct for a few short years after of the adoption REA design concept.
For this reason I though you were keen to add the slab and bracket option. I will defer to your opinion if you think it should now drop down the things to do list.
cheers
Phil,

 

[Martin Wynne]

Ergo whist the cast A chair is correct, its only strictly correct for a few short years after of the adoption REA design concept.

@Phil G

Hi Phil,

Well that's broadly true, but because something is introduced doesn't mean all track is immediately renewed. On main running lines renewals would be typically at around 15-20 year intervals. On secondary and branch lines much longer. For sidings and yards probably never -- many of those would still have had pre-grouping track with loose-heel switches to the end. And cast A chairs.

For this reason I thought you were keen to add the slab and bracket option.

The reason for wanting to do it as soon as possible is to prevent being continually asked about it! Especially by folks who regard it as an error. I had over 10 years supplying model track as 85A Models back in the 1970s and 1980s and I think I know the minds of modellers quite well.

For amusement have a look at the slab & bracket chairs on the Finetrax 00 and EM kits (I don't know about P4) -- the through bolt has a bend in the middle! Wayne can sleep easy -- no-one else will notice.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[genixia]

View attachment 6851

Oh my. That looks spectacular.

 

[Martin Wynne]

The reason for wanting to do it as soon as possible is to prevent being continually asked about it! Especially by folks who regard it as an error. I had over 10 years supplying model track as 85A Models back in the 1970s and 1980s and I think I know the minds of modellers quite well.

@Phil G

Sorry Phil. That didn't read quite as I intended. I wasn't referring to you.

Martin.

 

[Martin Wynne]

But sometimes a clip between the timbers can't be avoided, and I'm currently re-working the clip functions to make that easier. The current functions are little more than the original kludges to prove the concept.

@genixia

I've been playing with the connector clips, and really the present arrangements can't be considered fit for purpose, if we want to say that FDM plug track is ready for use. It all works, but it is far too clunky and time-consuming to do.

I'm looking at a single-click function in the shove timbers to add a clip between the timbers as part of the template. This would be in the BOX file and completely independent of the existing connector clips in the background shapes. But to the same design, so that they could connect if desired. If the clip is part of the template, the side flanges on the timber can be automatically adjusted to fit round the clip without conflicting with it or weakening the timber.

Ideally there would be an option to have the clip added automatically to the end timber while shortening or blanking a template for a brick.

None of this works of course if you want a clip between one template and the next. But generally it is better to avoid having the brick boundaries on the template boundaries, even if at first sight that seems the logical place for them.

Not working yet, but while I'm re-working the BOX file for the chair heaving, it makes sense to allow for other timber-specific data such as this.

Martin.

 

[Martin Wynne]

.
Another day, another brain failure.

I've just been trying to fit some EM crossing chairs in a P4 timbering base (despite having "EM" written on the back of the raft). They don't fit of course, because the wider flangeway gap makes them longer.

If we ever reach the stage of creating or sharing a library of STL files, it will be essential to mark them very clearly with the relevant track standard, both on any labels on the raft and also in the file name.

I have been thinking of making up a bit of pointwork in EM-SF to see how it looks alongside EM and P4. It will require a major effort of will not to get the chairs muddled up. The only safe way will be to keep all EM-SF stuff in a separate locked room, and be searched on the way in and out.

Martin.

 

[Steve_Cornford]

But where do you keep the key(s)?


Side Flanges & Connector Clips
If the user is going to stick the timbering base down before inserting any plugs, and also if using clip-fit plugs would it harm to reduce the width of the side flanges?

Steve

 

[Martin Wynne]

@Steve_Cornford

Hi Steve,

I'm not too clear what you mean there? You can already set the flange width to whatever you want:

Or switch them off entirely in the layers. Or on individual timbers via the shove timbers dialog.

Generally, for 12" turnout timbers near the middle of a turnout, containing only S1 ordinary chairs, removing the flanges doesn't do any harm. For long timbers under the V-crossing, especially if square-on, the skewed long sockets for 2 check rail chairs and the crossing chairs do combine to weaken the timber so that it can be pushed slightly to one side if there are no side flanges. Which would upset the rail alignment and disrupt the dimensional integrity of the whole brick. Having an undercut in the socket walls for the clip-fit plugs has weakened them further. On the other hand the clip-fit plugs require much less force to insert them, so the risk of distorting the timber is reduced.

How or if these issues are impacted by whether clipped together bricks are assembled in situ or on the bench is still unclear. Or whether the base is glued down or screwed/pinned in place. Or whether alignment pins are used through the hole in the clips. The chairs can be inserted in the base before or after clipping the bases together, and before or after transferring the base(s) from the bench to the layout. Likewise the loose jaws, although I think leaning across a baseboard to insert the loose jaws wouldn't be much fun.

The bottom line is that we don't yet know the answers to any of this. Not enough FDM track has been built and installed to have reached a consensus on the best way of doing it. Ideally we need a lengthy narrative posted on here of practical experiences building and laying plug track, before announcing to the world that it is ready for use. At present if a new user comes on here and asks the best way of using plug track on his layout, I don't really have an answer. I can suggest ideas, but not provide a proven method. But I'm sure there is one out there.

cheers,

Martin.