Experimental 3D plug track - up to version 244c

Phil G · 8 October 2023

Davey said:
Managed some play time this afternoon and printed a raft of O-MF S1 chairs

Great to see all the extra detail in the S1 chairs in O gauge.
Cheers
Phil

Martin Wynne · 9 October 2023

@James Walters

Another day, another tick box:

Alignment plates can be used to link and align laser-cut and CNC-milled bases while fixing them to the baseboard. This is similar to the connector clips for FDM bases.

The alignment plate locates into the timber sockets on adjacent bases:

Draw a rectangle over the timbers each side of the base boundary. Set to export chairs only, and the plugs only. Set Z scaling to -1 to print it upside down:

Can be a use-once-and-discard item for complex track formations, or standardised dummy single-timber templates could be added to the bases to use a standard re-usable alignment plate. Cut away the dummy timber after fixing the base in place.

Could be FDM printed or resin printed (or CNC-milled from solid). Measure the plate and adjust the shrinkage for accurate alignments.

In 241e later today, hopefully.

p.s. Similar alignment aids could be laser-cut with socket holes, for use with the extended locator plugs.

Martin.

Steve_Cornford · 9 October 2023

Hi Martin,
That's a Really Useful addition to your radio buttons

Could it even be used with FDM bases instead of connector clips?
Steve

Martin Wynne · 9 October 2023

@Frank

Update version 241e is now on the server.

Restart Templot to update.

Martin.

Phil G · 10 October 2023

Martin Wynne said:
Set Z scaling to -1 to print it upside down:

Hi Martin,
where do you set z scaling to a negative value to invert the location plug?
I just can't get the plugs to show on the preview.
Cheers
Phil

Martin Wynne · 10 October 2023

@Phil G

Hi Phil,

Click both buttons to make the required settings changes:

If you don't invert Z the plugs will be underneath the plate in the initial view in the viewer. Turn it over to see them (left-mouse-drag in 3D-Tool).

To invert Z change this to -1:

Ignore the warnings about doing a daft thing. Don't forget to change it back afterwards.

p.s. plugs are only on templates set for experimental chairing and stored.

cheers,

Martin.

Phil G · 10 October 2023

Hi Martin,
Thanks, well at least I am now getting plugs just way to many of them. I must be doing something very wrong here.
cant seem to isolate to the raft plugs. Its been a very long day

cheers
Phil.

Martin Wynne · 10 October 2023

@Phil G

Hi Phil,

Those look like locator plugs. Have you ticked that box, or have I introduced a new bug?

The extended timber locator plugs are for Steve. Don't tick it for alignment plates.

I can't explain everything from the beginning every day, but here you go again. This is bog standard Templot stuff, same as for partial templates:

To make a shortened version of a template:

1. copy it for a brick (puts the peg at CTRL-1 to avoid disrupting the timbering).

2. shorten overall length at one end F4.

3. blank up to the other end CTRL+F3.

4. store template INSERT.

5. select it for 3D export by grouping it, or setting a brick colour.

Here's a recent scruffy video clip showing that, which I posted a few days ago:

https://flashbackconnect.com/Default.aspx?id=FnGhGN5K7Oyz2BvrquboNA2

cheers,

Martin.

Phil G · 10 October 2023

Thank you Martin,
I missed the brick scruffy video that's exactly what I have been Pullin my hair out with. great video.
cheers
Phil

Martin Wynne · 10 October 2023

Phil G said:
Thank you Martin,
I missed the brick scruffy video that's exactly what I have been Pullin my hair out with. great video.
cheers
Phil

Hi Phil,

It was here:

https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.p...mbering-brick-from-a-track-plan.295/post-8239

We have too many intertwined topics with too much old stuff. I keep trying to sort them out, but it's a constant battle.

James is planning to do a Bexhill West explainer video soon.

cheers,

Martin.

Phil G · 10 October 2023

Martin Wynne said:
Hi Phil,

It was here:

https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.p...mbering-brick-from-a-track-plan.295/post-8239

We have too many intertwined topics with too much old stuff. I keep trying to sort them out, but it's a constant battle.

James is planning to do a Bexhill West explainer video soon.

cheers,

Martin.

Hi Martin,
I think there maybe a bug in 241e,
when I used the scruff for the timbering all was fine, however when I changed to chairs
a got the attached. In my storage box the is only the short 5 timber test piece,
but there are lots of artifacts in the preview as per attached screen shot.
please let me know if its a bug or once again I am doing something wrong.

cheers
Phil,

Martin Wynne · 10 October 2023

Martin Wynne said:
Hi Phil,

It was here:

https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.p...mbering-brick-from-a-track-plan.295/post-8239

We have too many intertwined topics with too much old stuff. I keep trying to sort them out, but it's a constant battle.

James is planning to do a Bexhill West explainer video soon.

cheers,

Martin.

I tried to start a beginners round-up topic, with the idea that it would build into a page for the Companion:

https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.php?threads/getting-started-with-3d-plug-track.722/

But already it has got derailed and diverted, some of it could have gone in this topic instead.

I just can't write stuff fast enough to avoid it getting tangled up in new questions as I go along. Plus there is new stuff to overtake the old, such as the multi-shift function for bunching interchangeable chairs. Sometimes it is only when writing explanations that I realise what additional functions are needed or would be helpful. Which then means go back 5 steps in the explanation and start again.

But I did expect originally that everyone getting involved in 3D exports would be reasonably experienced with Templot track planning. It seems we have quite a few Templot beginners wanting to do the plug track. Explaining both at once is no mean feat and I don't really know where to begin.

Martin.

@James Walters

Martin Wynne · 10 October 2023

Phil G said:
Hi Martin,
I think there maybe a bug in 241e,
when I used the scruff for the timbering all was fine, however when I changed to chairs
a got the attached. In my storage box the is only the short 5 timber test piece,
but there are lots of artifacts in the preview as per attached screen shot.
please let me know if its a bug or once again I am doing something wrong.

View attachment 7244

cheers
Phil,

@Phil G

Hi Phil,

Please post your BOX file and BGS3 file. Thanks.

Martin.

Phil G · 10 October 2023

Hi martin,
please find attached
cheers
Phil

Martin Wynne · 10 October 2023

@Phil G

Hi Phil,

Well that's a clear bug. Many thanks for reporting it.

It also goes back several versions. Which is a bit of a mystery, because it has never cropped up in all the testing I've done in recent months.

I will get to the bottom of it and fix it.

cheers,

Martin.

Martin Wynne · 10 October 2023

@Phil G

Well that bug goes back to update 229a released on 15th October 2021 -- 2 years ago, and this is the first time it has come to light.

The reason is that plain track chairs are normally printed bunched in bulk, there hasn't been any reason until now to print them in position on plain track which has been partially blanked.

Now fixed. I will try to get 241f out later today.

Martin.

Phil G · 10 October 2023

Hi Martin,
Thanks for the sanity check, I thought I was loosing completely

one other thing i noticed whilst playing with Templot yesterday, if I exported a grouped DXF file in 241B. I,E. before you uploaded the new export screen, I got exactly what I was expecting to see. IE all the templates in the group. exported as a single DXF file yesterday in 241e all I can export is the last saved template, even if I have several templates grouped.
I also noticed large format PDF files are still working as expected.
Again I am not sure if I have a setting wrong. I can't see anything obvious to me wrong. I can post screen shot of DXF file if that helps
Cheers
Phil

Martin Wynne · 10 October 2023

@Phil G

Hi Phil,

It seems to be working ok here. But there are now so many options of chaired/unchaired templates, brick templates, brick colours, etc. that it's difficult to test every combination. I noticed in the BOX file which you uploaded earlier that you had two identical templates, apart from one being set for experimental chairing, and one not. Templates can be grouped whether they are chaired or not, but they can only be brick templates if they are chaired.

Bear in mind also that there is now an extra click to show the settings before you can set for group export:

(This was asked for at the last ZOOM meeting.)

If you have forgotten to set the chairing before storing templates, you can set them all to match the current control template by clicking this:

If still problems we can look into it in the ZOOM meeting tomorrow.

cheers,

Martin.

Phil G · 10 October 2023

Hi Martin,
Yes I know we collectively asked you for the new export screen at the last zoom meeting. I have to say its a lot cleaner and everything is now grouped which is great. My reference to the new screen was not a criticise, simply a point of reference.
That said if its working for you, its back to the leaning drawing board and playing with more radio buttons for me.

Cheers
Phil
Ps, sorry I did not mention that box file had two templates, that was deliberate to see if the with or without chairs active made any difference. I should have pointed that out.

Phil G · 11 October 2023

Hi Martin,
I think I have finally figured out what was going on with my DXF exports. I think I had failed to rebuild before exporting; it then struck me
would there be any logic in moving the rebuild now from the custom page to the main page just above preview 2D option.
going a bit further, maybe a name change to rebuild for export.
we could then write a standard instruction to press this radio button each time before preview or exporting. (working on the basis hitting it when its not strictly required has no negatives) but failing to rebuild when changes have been made could cause issues.
just a thought !
cheers
Phil.

Martin Wynne · 11 October 2023

@Phil G

Hi Phil,

It is now set to rebuild automatically before exporting. Of course, it could be failing to do so under some conditions. Are you still seeing the problem? Does clicking rebuild now cure it?

The intended purpose of the rebuild now button is to reflect any changes you have made on the DXF/STL dialog in the current trackpad view.

cheers,

Martin.

Steve_Cornford · 11 October 2023

Hi Martin,
If I have a control template as displayed:-

and in the experimental 3D window the "store using this active marker colour" tick box is unticked, i get the expected rresult in the BOX

there is no colour attributed to the the template just stored.
If i then click on the [set active colour] button on the box window, experimental 3D window to the left is updated with a tick in the tick box.

However if i then click on the [change to active colour] button, it does not amend the colour of the template in the box.
I have to untick the brick tickbox on the box screen, then tick it again to get the colour to change on the template in the box.
Steve

Phil G · 11 October 2023

Hi Martin,
if that's the case then I now now longer have any idea why I could not export DXF as expected two days ago.
more detective work required from me I guess.
cheers
Phil

Martin Wynne · 12 October 2023

Steve_Cornford said:
Hi Martin,
If I have a control template as displayed:-
View attachment 7264
and in the experimental 3D window the "store using this active marker colour" tick box is unticked, i get the expected rresult in the BOX
View attachment 7266
there is no colour attributed to the the template just stored.
If i then click on the [set active colour] button on the box window, experimental 3D window to the left is updated with a tick in the tick box.
View attachment 7267
However if i then click on the [change to active colour] button, it does not amend the colour of the template in the box.
I have to untick the brick tickbox on the box screen, then tick it again to get the colour to change on the template in the box.
Steve

@Steve_Cornford

Hi Steve,

Thanks for reporting this.

This has been a tricky one to nail down. The underlying problem is that I made the mistake of using the existing marker colour for the brick colour. This conflicts with the original intended use of marker colours in track planning.

Since the beginning of time:

Every stored template has had a marker colour.
The default marker colour is red.
The default setting is for the marker colour to be switched off, so that the stored template appears in the normal colours.

If someone has been using the marker colours as originally intended, i.e. say green for the goods yard, orange for the loco depot, blue for the carriage sidings, etc., I strongly recommend saving a BOX file before you start extracting bricks for export, because the colours are likely to get mixed up. Reload the BOX file when you want to do more track planning.

In theory there shouldn't be a problem, because brick templates are copied from and separate from the original track plan templates. Therefore with their own marker colour / brick colour.

The snag is this menu option:

which bricklaying needs to switch on, and will remain on when you return to track planning. Unless you specifically remember to go and switch it off. Which Templot can't do for you because you may in fact want it switched on anyway.

I think I have sorted this out, but the upshot is -- if you have been using marker colours in track planning, after extracting bricks and exporting 3D files I suggest saving a new BOX file containing your brick templates, then restart Templot and reload your original track plan BOX file before doing any more track planning.

As this problem is livable with for now, and likewise the bug Phil found, I have changed my mind about releasing yet another update immediately. On reflection I'm thinking the chair heaving function is more important than anything else at present, so I'm going to press on with that, and bump the update to 242a when it's ready.

cheers,

Martin.

Steve_Cornford · 13 October 2023

Hi Martin,
let's face it chair heaving is much more interesting, and will keep the momentum going.
I can see more buttons on the horizon.

Steve

NoIdea · 13 October 2023

Thanks for the welcome in the Zoom meeting the other night.

@James Walters - have you published the guide someplace yet?

Martin

Martin Wynne · 13 October 2023

.
This is how the filed vee point rail fits in the plug track "A" chair.

This is for a Left-hand V-crossing looking towards the vee nose and showing the main-side (MS) wing rail:

The point rail is filed on one side only using the filing jig, and blunted back to 3/4" scale width (0.25mm / 10 thou in 4mm/ft scale) at the nose. This is where the overscale model rail web thickness comes to our advantage, supporting the rail head all the way to the blunted nose, just about. (This is similar to the point rails in the Finetrax kits.)

Obviously this can't strictly drop in vertically. It needs to slide in for the final 2 or 3 mm at the tip. The other end of the rail needing to be deflected sideways if necessary to clear an existing rail while you do it. Using loose jaws there is nothing in the way to prevent that.

If the narrow slot has flashed across in the resin chair, the sharp tip of the rail will push through it.

For good running the top of the nose is finally rounded over and taken down a few thou below the wing rail. This is best done in situ to blend in with the splice rail -- using needle files, abrasive paper, etc., or a fine flap wheel in a Dremel tool.

More information about using the filing jigs is at:

https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.php?threads/using-the-templot-rail-filing-jigs.728/

Martin.

Michael Woods · 13 October 2023

Martin Wynne said:
.
This is how the filed vee point rail fits in the plug track "A" chair:

View attachment 7305

The point rail is filed on one side only using the filing jig, and blunted back to 3/4" scale width (0.25mm / 10 thou in 4mm/ft scale). This is where the overscale model rail web thickness comes to our advantage, supporting the rail head all the way to the blunted nose, just about. (This is similar to the point rails in the Finetrax kits.)

Obviously this can't strictly drop in vertically. It needs to slide in for the final 2 or 3 mm at the tip. The other end of the rail needing to be deflected sideways if necessary to clear an existing rail while you do it. Using loose jaws there is nothing in the way to prevent that.

If the narrow slot has flashed across in the resin chair, the sharp tip of the rail will push through it.

For good running the top of the nose is finally rounded over and taken down a few thou below the wing rail. This is best done in situ to blend in with the splice rail -- using needle files, abrasive paper, etc., or a fine flap wheel in a Dremel tool.

Martin.

Hi Martin - I soldered my V. That may be a mistake but given that this is a curved point I was worried that the two parts may not join properly....would you recomend unsoldering and pushing further into the next chair.....

Michael Woods · 13 October 2023

progress of sorts.....have the baseboard tops lose while I try and work out the best way to create the joints between baseboards....I had marked everything out carefully in my templates but want to double check with the tops that have now arrived.

Martin Wynne · 13 October 2023

Michael Woods said:
Hi Martin - I soldered my V. That may be a mistake but given that this is a curved point I was worried that the two parts may not join properly....would you recomend unsoldering and pushing further into the next chair.....

View attachment 7309

@Michael Woods

Hi Michael,

What is the V-crossing angle there? How does it align with the printed paper template?

Whatever, the vee nose should be supported on the "A" chair, and the blunt nose should align with the opposite edge of the chair at X, or slightly inside it on the edge of the rail seat.

But it is difficult to be sure what's happening because where I have ringed the chair seems to be the wrong size for the socket?

cheers,

Martin.

Michael Woods · 13 October 2023

Martin Wynne said:
@Michael Woods

Hi Michael,

What is the V-crossing angle there? How does it align with the printed paper template?

View attachment 7313

Whatever, the vee nose should be supported on the "A" chair, and the blunt nose should align with the opposite edge of the chair at X, or slightly inside it on the edge of the rail seat.

But it is difficult to be sure what's happening because where I have ringed the chair seems to be the wrong size for the socket?

cheers,

Martin.

Thanks Martin....Chairs are not fully pushed home as I will paint the timbers first - but they are a nice fit. The point details are below....the template suggests that the point of the V should be on the Timber supporting the A chair....It can be pushed in that far I just wanted to make sure that I was not going too far. My A chair as you demonstrated in your recent post has two guides for the rails but I am not sure how that sits with my V....it will lift if off the chair, unless I cut an insert into the bottom of my V if that makes sense? Sorry all dumb questions......

Martin Wynne · 13 October 2023

@Michael Woods

Thanks Michael.

So it's a D-13:

As you can see the vee nose should be on the lower edge of the AA chair in your photo. However, there is something not quite right, because the back of the splice (where the rails separate) should be roughly where you have it on the lower edge of the BB chair -- assuming your rail is correct scale width (2.3/4" scale). In order to push the point rail forward without disrupting that you would need to unsolder the rails.

If you have filed both sides of the rail at the vee nose I'm afraid it is not going to fit in the plug track AA chair as it stands. On the MS side of the nose the plug track chair jaw engages into the web of the rail, thus holding it down on the chair seat.

This is the reason for providing the FDM filing jigs, so that folks can make vee rails which will match the chairs exactly.

You should be able to modify the chair by cutting away the part of the jaw which engages into the rail web -- I call it the "grip" -- but it will then be necessary to glue the nose down onto the chair to prevent it lifting up.

Generally the plug track vees don't need soldering before assembly, and doing so makes assembly difficult or impossible. The point and splice rails are assembled one at a time. If desired the rails can be soldered in situ afterwards using a little solder cream (SMT paste) during assembly and flashing it quickly with the soldering iron afterwards. The ABS-Like resin will resist soldering temperatures if you are quick, and prevent the hot rail touching the FDM base (which won't).

If building on the bench rather than in situ on the baseboard, rather than soldering it is easy to apply a little epoxy to the underside of the rails afterwards. In addition to locking the vee rails together this will lock them into the timbering base, and will be invisible from above.

It is only now that we are starting to discuss the actual building and laying of plug track -- shortly I will move this discussion to the practical section of the forum away from the software discussions.

cheers,

Martin.

Steve_Cornford · 13 October 2023

Hi Michael, Martin,
Here is a link to an earlier post by Martin with illustration of o of the point and splice showing the web of the point rail and illustrating that only one side if each rail is filed as opposed to the more traditional method.
https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.php?threads/experimental-plug-track-continued.673/post-6981

Steve_Cornford · 13 October 2023

Hi Michael,
Ps.
If building in situ remember to add your chosen method of dropper wires to rail before inserting rail into chairs & adding jaws.
Unless youve gone r/c on us!
Steve

Martin Wynne · 13 October 2023

NoIdea said:
Thanks for the welcome in the Zoom meeting the other night.

@James Walters - have you published the guide someplace yet?

Martin

@NoIdea @James Walters

Hi Martin,

Good to see you at the Zoom meeting.

The guide is still just a rough first draft, not yet published.

It's intended that plug track basics will be mostly covered under James's "Bexhill West" branding. That means we can keep the experimental development stuff here separate from the getting started stuff for new uses. Hopefully.

When it's published the guide will be here:

https://85a.uk/bexhillwest/wordpress/8-2/

https://85a.uk/bexhillwest/

But there is not much there yet, just placeholders.

It will also be linked from the Companion, here:

https://85a.uk/templot/companion/plug_track.php

But there is not much there yet, either. We really are still at the beginning as far as saying plug track is good to go. A point I have been trying to make for some time, and generally failing.

cheers,

Martin.

James Walters · 13 October 2023

NoIdea said:
Thanks for the welcome in the Zoom meeting the other night.

@James Walters - have you published the guide someplace yet?

Martin

Hi Martin,

It was nice to meet you at the Zoom meeting. The guide isn't finished, but I will gladly send you what I have, and I'd appreciate your thoughts as a novice (like me).

Send me an email, makeitminiature [at] outlook.com, and I'll send it over to you.

Best,
James

Martin Wynne · 14 October 2023

@James Walters

At the Zoom meeting this week I suggested that the long first ZY chair on James's B-7 turnout looked wrong, and could have been replaced by 2 L1 bridge chairs.

Well I was wrong -- the timber has to be shoved quite a long way before Templot can fit 2 bridge chairs on it. Here's a short clip of video showing that:

https://flashbackconnect.com/Default.aspx?id=G64k6ZnxmQPRIGt7GfLQvQ2

Martin.

Martin Wynne · 17 October 2023

.
Another bug.

Extending the toe timber for a yard lever causes the soleplate to shift out of position:

I will get it fixed,

Martin.

Martin Wynne · 18 October 2023

Martin Wynne said:
.
Another bug.

Extending the toe timber for a yard lever causes the soleplate to shift out of position:

View attachment 7344

I will get it fixed,

Martin.

Fixed:

Martin.

Michael Woods · 19 October 2023

Hi Martin - hope that I am not doing something really silly here and appologies in advance if I am.

I am trying to crete an STL of a file. Something that I have done dozens of time before.....but this week I have suddenly encountered the following warning.

I have checked storage and also tried saving to a memory stick to make sure that there is not a space issue. I have tripple checked that only one version of Templot is running, I have reloaded Templot a couple of times and performed a complete power restart on my PC. I have also tried multiple permutations of file names. I can save the file in DXF format, I only get this problem when I try and create an STL......can you think of anything else I should try?...it must be a silly on my side but I am out of ideas.....it is impacting all of my files - many of which I have created STLs of before. The only thing I can think of next is to try another PC but before I do that I thought I would ask for ideas.....



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Experimental 3D plug track - up to version 244c

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