Experimental 3D plug track - up to version 244c

[James Walters]

If your one step closer to being a Ninja. I am about a 1/4 step being closer to being Japanese, so I have a hell of a way to go yet
cheers
Phil

One step closer, although I've not got my white belt yet.

 

[Martin Wynne]

.
And also here:

Martin.

 

[Steve_Cornford]

Hi Martin,
If I stored one (or more) templates without ticking the [] bricklaying option, for example:-

and then tick (the very useful) [] brick option in the box window, then press the [change to active colour] button, then the [show box list] button, i get this:-

and this gives me the impression that i have a background brick template set with the correct active colour.

However, if i then press the [zoom to brick] button, I get this message:-

I found that I have to "delete to control", then "store and background" (or there equivalent) to be able to use the [zoomto brick] feature,
or for that matter the "timbering brick only" radio button on the DFX export screen.
Sorry, Steve
edit, have now attached boxfile that shows symptoms.

 

[Martin Wynne]

@Steve_Cornford

Hi Steve,

Thanks for finding that. The problem is that it needs to be actually showing on the pad in its marker colour, and it isn't:

I will get it fixed.

Thanks again,

Martin.

 

[Michael Woods]

Hi Martin/Steve

Ff you have a moment can you please send me a close up of the tip of the V in one of the points you have made......I just want to make sure that I am pushing the V far enough into the point. Does the tip sit on a sleeper or between sleepers?

Many thanks!

 

[Steve_Cornford]

Here is a cruel closeup of a set of replacement point & splice rails.

The point rail goes into the chair , then the splice rail joins it between the timbers. There is another resin part that goes under the join of the two rails but I have not fitted it yet.

These rails were filed & fitted before I had my first cataract operation. Well that's my excuse and I am sticking to it!
I should now try fitting the other little bits of resin now I can see properly.

Steve

 

[Martin Wynne]

I just want to make sure that I am pushing the V far enough into the point. Does the tip sit on a sleeper or between sleepers?

@Michael Woods

Hi Michael,

The chairs are handed for left and right hand turnouts. The point rail is on the main-road side. It needs to be blunted back to a nose width of 3/4" scale. It will then push through the "A" chair and stop with the blunt nose in line with the edge of the chair, just as in Steve's photo.

There might be a little flash in the chair which needs to be pushed through.

But it will only do this if you have the correct handing of chair and point rail matching. Steve's photo shoes a left-hand V-crossing with a left-hand "A" chair and with the point rail in the main road filed on the left-hand side looking from the nose.

The splice rail is not blunted back, and fits up snugly against the point rail.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Phil O]

I have just ordered the printer from Gee Tech and used Paypal with no problem, just waiting for a confirmation email from them, I have received the one from Paypal.

I have just come home from the pub and found a box labelled Alkaid, on the doorstep, I have put it in the boot of the car. I hope that when I open it on Monday, in the clubroom it will contain a 3d printer.

It said 2 day delivery and it was. No complaints, so far!

 

[Michael Woods]

Hi Martin, Third time I have created Lose Key Chairs....up to now no problem. But this time I am doiing something stupid and I cannot see what it is......my chairs dont have slots for the keys...

Any clues?

The only thing I have done differently is to make the chair plugs a little smaller to help ease into Timbers....

 

[Martin Wynne]

@Michael Woods

Hi Michael,

There are various ways to lose the slots, such as setting locator plugs, or switching off the plugs, or making the plug depth zero.

Or changing the settings in the jaws dialog for the template. Are you sure the jaws dialog in your screenshot, which applies to the control template, matches the background template(s) in your export?

The only thing I have done differently is to make the chair plugs a little smaller to help ease into Timbers....

Don't do that. The pin slots only just about fit through the bottom of the plug. If you make the plug narrower the slicer will likely make a mess of the whole thing.

To change the fit of the plugs in the sockets, you need to change the size of the sockets, not the plugs. As in your screenshot above -- where you seem to be making the sockets smaller, which will make the plugs a tighter fit.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Michael Woods]

Thank you Martin.....Can you just double check one thing for me as I am worried that I have messed up my default settings for "adjust 3D Chair / Socket Press Fit". In S Scale. Are these back to the right settings.....I have set reset all but want to be sure...

 

[Steve_Cornford]

Hi Michael,
Assuming you are using Chitubox to slice the resin chairs, make sure you have anti-aliasing switched off, as to start with I did not and found that the chair plugs were coming out over-sized.

Also I think the screen you are showing us adjusts the socket width rather than the plug width.
I believe the default socket side clearance is 0.03 rather than 0.06.

Steve

 

[Martin Wynne]

@Michael Woods

Hi Michael,

These are the default settings for S scale:

That doesn't mean they are necessarily good settings, they are just my best guess for a range of printers. As I've mentioned once or twice this whole thing is still experimental.

This dialog controls the size of the sockets, perhaps it needs to make that clearer.

The negative dimensions mean the socket is smaller than the plug, to create a firm interference press fit.

To create an easier fit you need to make them less negative or more positive, to create a larger socket.

The actual dimensions used to create press-fit sockets are further modified by this slider:

And in 241c can be modified again by this option:

Where you can enter the actual measured diameter of your filament. The filament diameter affects the width of the wall which the printer creates around the socket, and Templot can optionally adjust the socket to allow for this for maximum accuracy.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Michael Woods]

Thank you Martin.....much appreciated.

 

[Martin Wynne]

.
For 241c I'm intending to remove this. It doesn't sit well with plug track having been on public display at Scaleforum last week:

However it will still be infuriating if folks post stuff elsewhere showing incorrect Templot stuff which I have said is still experimental and unfinished.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[genixia]

A warning in the export page is likely sufficient. The existing warning there could be clarified and beefed up if necessary.

 

[Phil G]

Hi Martin,
Why don't you use wording something like "Plug track is under further development, and is still a work in progress"
and maybe use a symbol similar to a workers caution road sign.
cheers
phil,

 

[Phil G]

Hi martin maybe something like this for example

 

[Martin Wynne]

@genixia @Phil G

 

[Martin Wynne]

Hi Martin,
I hope this is a helpful suggestion:-

View attachment 6955
Any chance of moving "3-D support raft label text height" from this screen on the Timbers tab to the "support rafts" screen on the supports tab?
ie this screen:-
View attachment 6956
Regards Steve

@Steve_Cornford

Hi Steve,

Thanks. In 241c later today.

Martin.

 

[Martin Wynne]

.
Templot update 241c is now on the server.

Restart Templot to update.

Martin.

 

[Michael Woods]

@Michael Woods

Hi Michael,

These are the default settings for S scale:

View attachment 7021

That doesn't mean they are necessarily good settings, they are just my best guess for a range of printers. As I've mentioned once or twice this whole thing is still experimental.

This dialog controls the size of the sockets, perhaps it needs to make that clearer.

The negative dimensions mean the socket is smaller than the plug, to create a firm interference press fit.

To create an easier fit you need to make them less negative or more positive, to create a larger socket.

The actual dimensions used to create press-fit sockets are further modified by this slider:

View attachment 7023

And in 241c can be modified again by this option:

View attachment 7022

Where you can enter the actual measured diameter of your filament. The filament diameter affects the width of the wall which the printer creates around the socket, and Templot can optionally adjust the socket to allow for this for maximum accuracy.

cheers,

Martin.

.
Templot update 241c is now on the server.

Restart Templot to update.

Martin.

Thank you Martin - first print is on the printer.....

 

[Michael Woods]

Hi Michael,
Assuming you are using Chitubox to slice the resin chairs, make sure you have anti-aliasing switched off, as to start with I did not and found that the chair plugs were coming out over-sized.

Also I think the screen you are showing us adjusts the socket width rather than the plug width.
I believe the default socket side clearance is 0.03 rather than 0.06.

Steve

Thank Steve - I use Lychee Slicer and anti-aliasing is default to off.....but whatever cause my problem went away when I returned to default settings ......just experimenting with clip fit chairs now.....

 

[Martin Wynne]

.
Sorry, there is a bug in 241c preventing creation of 2D files for laser cutting.

An update to 241d will be available in a few hours.

Sorry,

Martin.

 

[Martin Wynne]

.
Templot update 241d is now on the server.

Restart Templot to update.

I have added a handy new function since 241c today which I will write about shortly.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Martin Wynne]

.
While fixing the bug today I have added a handy new function shift and store multi in 241d.

Here is a template blanked and shortened to a single timber containing S1J joint chairs in 4mm/ft scale, and gauge-reduced to 5mm. I have ticked the bricklaying boxes and stored it:

Then clicking the shift and store multi button does this automatically -- another 13 templates:

28 bunched S1J chairs all ready to have a raft rectangle drawn round them.

14 each side is a convenient length of raft to fit across the build plates on the Mars and Alkaid printers. The default chair spacing is 15 inches scale.

But if you wish you can change the number and spacing to whatever you want here:

15 or 16 per side is possible if your printer prints reliably right to the edge of the plate. Get the FEP scraper ready if it doesn't.

This function should make it easier to create rafts of all the interchangeable chairs, such as P slide chairs , CC check rail chairs, etc.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[James Walters]

What a neat function. I'm going to have a play.

 

[James Walters]

I tried it. It works a treat. Great work Martin.

 

[Steve_Cornford]

Hi Martin,
Thanks a lot, a great idea.

I have also used it to create a set of bunched plain track sleepers by setting the repeat distance to (width of sleeper + kerf) ie for S1 sleepers, 3.33 + 0.2 = 3.53. Works a treat

Sample with a repeat of 3 with repeat distance set to 3.53
Steve

 

[Phil G]

Hi James,
Now you a Ninja (and clearly better than a white belt)
you need to do a Bexhill west video on getting the best out of plug track, tips such as the above on a video would be fantastic for all.
In fact I think there is a whole video on getting chairs ready to print on resin printers such as the Alkaid type.
please note not trying to take anything away from Martin with these comments its just the synergy works.
cheers
Phil,
Ps you were going to email me directly before S4rm just wondering if you had forgotten?

 

[James Walters]

Hi Phil,
There's a video in the works, and some resource materials which I think will be of benefit to all. Watch this space.
I hadn't forgotten to email, just been super busy, will do so tomorrow.

 

[Davey]

Hi everyone.

This is my first post and I must say how much I am enjoying Templot - thanks Martin. However, I have a question if I may?

Is there a way of discovering and/or showing which type of chair is which on a template? I am hoping to produce rafts of each different required chair, 20 S1, 10 L1 etc..in 7mm scale. I understand and have tried the new bunching technique but haven't found how to identify each chair. I have found, for example, that a B8 template has 110 chairs, but not how many of each chair there are, nor which is actually which.

Hope that makes sense?

Thanks
Davey

 

[Martin Wynne]

@Davey

Hi Davey,

Welcome to Templot Club.

It's a good question. I've tended to assume everyone knows which chair is which, but they don't of course. This was mentioned in the recent Zoom meeting and I think I said I would do something about it. Which I haven't done yet. But I will do later today and post a diagram.

There are some diagrams online from Exactoscale, but they don't as far as I remember show S1J joint chairs, and for Templot I have modified some of the designations to allow for the wider flangeways in 00 / EM / 0-MF etc.

If you are planning to produce plug track in 7mm scale you may well be one of the first. Will that be in 0-MF or S7? I haven't mentioned it on the 7mm forums yet, and I want to do that scale myself. I've recently obtained some of the excellent new code 131 rail from C&L with the intention of measuring it and getting it into Templot as a pre-set, but I haven't done that yet either. So much still to do.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Steve_Cornford]

Hi Davey,
Although it is a good idea to produce rafts of the "common" chairs (S1,S1J,L1,P), the other "special" chairs are size and handed related, apart from the check chairs.
Check chairs CC are common, but CCL and CCR can change if you have perform any timber shoving, so I tend to treat them as not common, and produce a raft with the set CCL,CC,CC,CC,CCR for MS and TS rails for the target turnout on their own raft. Ps there might be more than 3 CC chairs dependent on turnout (and your preference).
Once printed mark along the outside edge of each chair plug with marker pen to indicate orientation once removed from raft!

The special slide chairs P1R,P2R,P3R.... and P1L,P2L,P3L,P4L... can also have their own raft but these are handed. Eg a LH B8 turnout is different to RH B8.

The actual "special" crossing CB chairs also need their own handed raft.

Here I hope is a link to the page giving the REA drawings link.


https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.php?resources/rea-bullhead-track-drawings.12/
But note that for 3D printing Martin has modified some of the crossing chair designations.
If you switch on timber nu.bering in the trackpad you can get a bit of a clue.
Steve

 

[Paratom]

.
A new Templot program update is now available. Version 241d.

Your copy of Templot should update automatically if you restart it and follow the instructions. There is no need to uninstall your existing copy of Templot.

---

• If you are still using Templot version 227a , the automatic update will fail due to a program glitch.
Sorry about that -- please download and install version 241d manually from: https://85a.uk/templot/companion/manual_update.php

---

Changes in 241d:

More fixes and updates, mostly relating to the 3D exports for 3D printing and laser cutting:

​

copy for brick (moves peg to CTRL-1)​

​

shift and store multi​

​

switch drive (tie-bar) slider ribs (slider itself not yet done)​

​

adjust for filament diameter​

​

guide lines on brick connector clips​

​

bug-fix on all-timbers exit chairs​

​

100mm grid spacing pre-set​

​

DXF/STL dialog changes​

​

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Please let me know if you spot anything wrong.

Still not done:

chair heaving; revised brick connector clips; K-crossings; slab & bracket; bolted half-chairs; rail bending jigs; revised tweezers; you name it. ​

cheers,

Martin.

Hi Martin really impressed by the work your doing here. Are there any plans to do four bolt chairs. I don't know how you incorporate the 3D drawings into Templot but if you are thinking of doing so let me know as I can supply you with the 3D artwork for the chairs. They will be based on Midland Railway design.

Thomas

 

[Steve_Cornford]

Hi Davey,

Select Trackpad tab, then Trackpad control template options then Show timber numbers

(oh and experimental charing) and you get:-

Specifically for a Lefthand (LH) B8
Timber J2 contains common S1J chairs, J1 contains common S1, but could be common S1J chairs if you have selected the use all S1J chairs on switch front option.
In the case of a B8, timbers S1 to S6 are common P chairs.
S7 to S10 timbers respectively contain special 1PL,2PL,3PL,4PL chairs on the Turnout Side (TS), and 1PR,2PR,3PR,4PR on the Main Side (MS) stock rails.
Timbers S11 and T1 contain common L1 chairs.
T2 contains two common L1, and two common S1 chairs.
Timbers T3 to T12 contain common S1 chairs.

T13 has common S1 chairs on the stock rails, and common S1J on the switch rails.

Timbers X1-Z through to X5-B stock rails have respectively CCL,CC,CC,CC,CCR chairs.
It is best, in my opinion, to treat these as special, just in case you indulge in timber shoving, in which case the CCL and CCR chairs become uncommon, so I just make up a raft containing these chairs, and as suggested by Martin originally I mark the outside edge of each chair plug with a marker pen to aid orientation after removing from raft as they are asymetrical.
Timber X1-Z also contains a common L1 and a common S1J chair.

In the Templot world, the non-stock rails of timbers X2-Y through to X7-D contain the special crossing chairs and are handed (LH B8 different to RH B8).
For the moment I just call these Y,X,A,B,C,D chairs respectively, although Martin has given them some special codes to differentiate them from the Real world common B8 crossing chairs.
Make a raft specifically for the LH B8 for these, also mark along one side of the chair plugs with a marker pen before removal from raft, as it is essential to get these the right way round in the socket.
Stock rails on timber X6-C through to X8 have common S1 chairs, in addition X8 has two common L1 chairs.
Timber X9 has four common S1J chairs.

Hopefully Martin will correct me if I have got anything wrong!

Hope this helps .
Steve

 

[Martin Wynne]

Hopefully Martin will correct me if I have got anything wrong!

@Steve_Cornford @Davey

Hi Steve,

You haven't got anything wrong, but it makes a difficult read for anyone starting from scratch. There will be a test later.

I'm hoping I can simplify it a bit for beginners. Here is the first of some diagrams I shall be posting later with explanations:

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Michael Woods]

Hi Martin,

I am struggling a bit using the new water washable ABS like resin. It is great in that it is more elastic than non water washable but the challenge I now have is that I cannot fit my chairs into the sleepers...in S Scale they are coming up a bit to big.

Now I could enlarge my rail settings and then scale the chair down on my slicer....but that does not feel like a sustainable approach,

I would rather look at a method in Templot. Even if I try a "press fit" chair into a "snap fit" timber it is still too tight - almost ok but not predictable,

Is there a way that I can easily reduce the size of the chair plug? I have looked at the following data entry box but want to check with you before I go and do something stupid.

 

[Phil G]

Hi Martin,
Is it worth pointing out as per prototypical practice, as the turnout angle gets shallower, the number of special crossing chairs increase automatically, Which is why you have the BB, BC,CD DD and EF chairs. Maybe your covering this in latter posts
cheers
Phil,

 

[Martin Wynne]

@Michael Woods

Hi Michael,

Yes you can reduce the design size of the plugs in Templot (although not on that dialog).

But I strongly advise you not to do that. It can create lots of issues with the chair design, loose pin slots, and supports.

If parts come out the wrong size, the solution is to adjust the shrinkage settings:

If parts are too big, reduce the shrinkage allowance which Templot applies to them. Or make it zero or even negative. It needs trial and error to find the optimum setting for your own printer and exposure settings. If you make a significant change to the chair shrinkage you might also want to adjust the rail-fit settings to compensate.

Bear in mind also that if you created the sockets as press-fit they will be smaller than any you subsequently create as clip-fit.

I also found that the Anycubic Water-Wash ABS-Like shrank rather less than the Elegoo resin. In practice the shrinkage is impossible to measure accurately because thick areas shrink more in proportion than thin areas. Prints also tend to shrink a little over time, so if they don't fit, one answer is to leave them for 3 months and try again.

cheers,

Martin.