Experimental 3D plug track - up to version 244c

[genixia]

I'm desperately trying to work out how to squeeze a resin printer and washing tank into my small flat, and the only feasible space might be the kitchen area. For that reason alone, I'd be very interested to hear about people's experiences with water washable resin. IPA in close proximity to a gas hob is probably not a good idea!

Cheers,
Paul

Yes, fire safety is obviously a concern when it comes to volatile alcohols. I also note that nearly all of the water-washables I've been looking at today are claiming low-to-zero odours. I imagine that might also be useful in small flats!

 

[James Walters]

Hi James, good luck with your Scaleforum demos.
Steve

Thank you Steve,
I haven't forgotten your cork btw. I laser cut a piece the other day with the chair cut outs, and it was very encouraging. I've had such a busy week though I haven't had the time to put a fulsome response together for you. Email inbound post Scaleforum. I promise.

 

[Winander]

Thank you Steve,
I haven't forgotten your cork btw. I laser cut a piece the other day with the chair cut outs, and it was very encouraging. I've had such a busy week though I haven't had the time to put a fulsome response together for you. Email inbound post Scaleforum. I promise.

When reading past posts regarding the idea to use laser cut cork sheet to save ballast, it occurred to me that you could use it to locate loose sleepers. This would eliminate all the chads from laser cutting a formation of sleepers and whilst only viable for plain track, how much 3mm ply would you save?

Richard

p.s. Good luck at the weekend James.

 

[James Walters]

Thank you Richard, that's an interesting idea. Ply is expensive, cork less so. I'll add it to the list of things to try out and report back on.

 

[Phil G]

I've been looking at today are claiming low-to-zero odours

Hi Ian,
Call me a sceptic if you like, but the low odour is in the eyes, or nose of the beholder. And the zero odour is simply not possible on a VOC based chemistry. I will await your view on this once you have given it a try.
Cheers
Phil,

 

[Steve_Cornford]

Hi James,
No rush, it has been obvious that both you and Martin have been bearing away in preparation for Scaleforum.
I've got grandad duties in Sidmouth this weekend else I would have gone to the show.
Steve

 

[Martin Wynne]

I'm desperately trying to work out how to squeeze a resin printer and washing tank into my small flat, and the only feasible space might be the kitchen area. For that reason alone, I'd be very interested to hear about people's experiences with water washable resin. IPA in close proximity to a gas hob is probably not a good idea!

Cheers,
Paul

@Paul Boyd @genixia

Hi Paul, Ian,

I've ordered some water-washable ABS-Like resin:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0C7BFQZ2C

There is currently an £8 discount voucher available. I also had an Amazon gift card to use. The omens may not be good -- the last 3 letters of the claim code were NBG.

So we can find out if it works for chairs.

Someone did post previously to say that they had tried water-washable resin without success, but I don't recall which resin they were using. Find the post, anyone?

An interesting point in the instructions is that it must be fully dried before UV curing to give the full strength. So add a hairdryer to the requirements.

There is also a demo on Youtube showing that the ABS-Like resins need 20 minutes in the UV curing to achieve full strength. I have been using only 10 minutes. On the other hand the 4mm chairs are much smaller than most 3D-printed parts, and the UV obviously requires longer to penetrate the translucent material for larger parts.

There are dozens of resins available waiting to be tried for the chairs. For example the Nylon-Like resins look worth investigating, although not water-washable. (PA-resin, Polyamide):

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0BGPCSBXY

Nylon might be more difficult to paint. Although "Nylon-Like" means it isn't actually nylon of course.

Martin.

 

[Michael Woods]

@Paul Boyd @genixia

Hi Paul, Ian,

I've ordered some water-washable ABS-Like resin:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0C7BFQZ2C

There is currently an £8 discount voucher available. I also had an Amazon gift card to use. The omens may not be good -- the last 3 letters of the claim code were NBG.

So we can find out if it works for chairs.

Someone did post previously to say that they had tried water-washable resin without success, but I don't recall which resin they were using. Find the post, anyone?

An interesting point in the instructions is that it must be fully dried before UV curing to give the full strength. So add a hairdryer to the requirements.

There is also a demo on Youtube showing that the ABS-Like resins need 20 minutes in the UV curing to achieve full strength. I have been using only 10 minutes. On the other hand the 4mm chairs are much smaller than most 3D-printed parts, and the UV obviously requires longer to penetrate the translucent material for larger parts.

There are dozens of resins available waiting to be tried for the chairs. For example the Nylon-Like resins look worth investigating, although not water-washable. (PA-resin, Polyamide):

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0BGPCSBXY

Nylon might be more difficult to paint. Although "Nylon-Like" means it isn't actually nylon of course.

Martin.

Martin.

I posted re water washable Elegoo. I prefer water washable it has a lovely crisp finish. But it is very brittle. Use it on all my engines that are a mix of 3D and etch.

But I found it too britle for plug track. Now happy with the ABS like which whilst involves more complex cleaning but is perfect for plug track.

What I have found is that resin is durable. Some of my engines are over 5 years old and there is no warping or cracks....so I do believe that resin for track will be very durable and stand the test of time.

 

[Martin Wynne]

Martin.

I posted re water washable Elegoo. I prefer water washable it has a lovely crisp finish. But it is very brittle. Use it on all my engines that are a mix of 3D and etch.

But I found it too britle for plug track. Now happy with the ABS like which whilst involves more complex cleaning but is perfect for plug track.

What I have found is that resin is durable. Some of my engines are over 5 years old and there is no warping or cracks....so I do believe that resin for track will be very durable and stand the test of time.

@Michael Woods

Hi Michael,

Many thanks for that info. Sorry I couldn't remember who posted it previously.

I shall report how I get on with the water-washable ABS-Like, on both the Mars and the Alkaid. If it works I shall have a large quantity of IPA unwanted -- I'm glad I kept all the empty bottles to pour it back into from the Mercury wash tubs.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Paul Boyd]

I posted re water washable Elegoo. I prefer water washable it has a lovely crisp finish. But it is very brittle. Use it on all my engines that are a mix of 3D and etch.

Hi Michael,

I had a quick look online this morning and all3d.com compare various - Elegoo was mentioned as being brittle, but PrimaCreator Value was supposed to be very good, if more expensive. Obviously I can’t try it yet but it’s one I would try if I can squeeze a printer in somewhere!

I’m struggling to insert a link, but I googled “water washable resin” and the all3dp page came up at the top.

Cheers,
Paul

 

[Winander]

Thank you Richard, that's an interesting idea. Ply is expensive, cork less so. I'll add it to the list of things to try out and report back on.

The more I think about this, the more I like it.

Here's the gist of it. Cut sleeper profiles through cork sheet, following the twists and turns of you trackplan. Glue the cork to the baseboard, let the glue dry. Place ply sleepers, cut individually, not in a raft, into the profiles and fix chairs and rail. Grind up the chads from cutting the cork and use as ballast.
The sleepers will hold the rails to gauge and the cork will hold the sleepers. Note that the sleepers are not fixed or glued and this should provide a disconnect that will reduce the noise often associated with fixing track.
Will it stay together is a good question? The only thing that needs to be prevented is the track lifting from the baseboard and this could be achieved by a pin in a loosely fitting hole, or wait and see if it does lift and do something to correct it then. Perhaps the ballast and paint and gravity will do the job.
I like the idea because it doesn't waste ply and uses the minimum of readily available proven materials. I have recently been experimenting with foam underlay but am concerned at its longevity.

That's the IP sorted

 

[James Walters]

Hi Richard,
I think there may be some merit to it. I was thinking it might be especially good for sound dampening. But the potential for reducing waste on plain track is an added bonus.
Will you be at S4um this weekend?

Best,

James

 

[Steve_Cornford]

As part of my "playing with ply" experiment, I have taken some .DXF files from Templot and used Inkscape to bunch some timbers and sleepers. There is a <ctrl-d> (duplicate) function in Inkscape that duplicates a selection and this maintains each object in the selection within its original layer, thus letting me keep all sockets in the "KERFSOCK" layer and all timber outlines in the "KERFTIMB" layer, whereas the normal <ctrl-c> (copy) and <ctrl-v> (paste) moves all the copied objects into the current layer.

Here is one I made earlier with both LH and RH B6 timbers (crossing timbers constant), S1J timbers, and S1 sleepers.
The S1 sleepers have been output with narrowed sockets to ensure the integrity of the ply sleeper alongside the socket.
The idea here is for use with 1.6mm ply, then have a 3mm cork base cut with just the sockets and trackbed edges scored on the surface.

Here is a potential track plan, again a .DFX exported from Templot, but displayed in Inkscape to show what is possible.
Sockets in blue (inner cut) , trackbed edges in red (surface score), trackbed join marks in green (outer cut).
Steve

 

[Martin Wynne]

@Steve_Cornford

Hi Steve,

Without a laser cutter here I struggle to follow what folks are doing with them.

If you just want plain track sleepers bunched together, Templot will do that for you:

Go to real > plain track options > rail lengths and sleeper spacings ...

Select a custom slot in the list and then click the custom settings ... button.

Enter the rail length as the sleeper centres you want. For the above I set 13" rail length (for 10" sleepers).

Enter the distance from the rail end to the first sleeper centre as half of that. For the above I entered 6.5".

Enter the spacing to the next sleeper as zero.

The result will be as above, with sockets and kerfs in the usual layers.

This won't work with pointwork timbers, I'm puzzled how you can build track if you bunch those together?

If you are narrowing the plugs, what is happening to the slots for the loose jaws? They might not print properly and leave bits of plug stuck on the FEP film. Likewise the thin edges of the chair base where it overlaps from the sides of the plug.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Phil G]

Hi Guys,
cutting pockets in the cork, the exact shape of the timber is exactly what I was talking about just over a week ago. If it works and I am not sure it will, due to possible fire risk. you can etch (burn the cork) "there are lots of how to etch place matts for example on YouTube".
A pocket that you can control the depth is the idea answer, as it then frees us up to use material of any depth we like.
IE 2 mm thick ply and 3 mm thick cork would be a good combination. Another option could be two layers of cork and one layer for the ply timbers, IE two layers of 2 mm cork one solid as the base layer and the second fully pocketed would create the correct depth. Then a 3 mm ply timber would leave 1 mm of timber showing above the cork.
If all of this is a nice snug fit it it would give great sound deadening, it would also allow for the chair pockets in the ply timbers to get very close to the edge if the timber, as the cork is also acting as a chair support. IE as the chair would then be fitted after the cork and timber were all bedded down it offers lateral support to the chair. effectively doing the same job as the FDM webs.
There is no reason this needs to be confined to straight track either, it would work just as well with more complex timbering around turnouts. Effectively the top of the cork, be it one or two layers is the inverted image of a paper template. The timbers just drop into the sockets created. That should be quite simple because there really the same DXF files, just with different kerf values applied.
if the logic works the next thing to try is bunched timbers as that then saves wasted plywood.
In fact it may work just as well if FDM timbers with no webs are used. As they to could just drop into the cork pockets, all of this would require access to laser cut parts however.
Martin, I know your not keen on laser experiments, for what are quite valid reasons, but maybe just maybe, the laser is as important to the timber and bed concept, as the resin printer is to the chair manufacture. Just saying
cheers
Phil,

 

[Steve_Cornford]

Hi Martin,
Thanks for the tip re bunching plain sleepers.
In fact I just used one sleeper from the .DFX, then noting the x position of the right hand edge, duplicated then amended the x of the ledger hand edge of the duplicate to be the same as the right hand edge of the first. then repeated with the two to create 4, then,again to produce 8, then again , and again, getting 32 bunched as a result. A lot quicker to do than explain.
The reduced slot width for these 3.33mm sleepers are only for fixed jaw S1 chairs for the plain track.
I suspect that attempting a 2mm slot width in a 3.3mm sleeper would suffer burn through adjacent to the slot.
I appreciate that it is also a bit ambitious to print a loose jaw chair with a slot width of 1.6mm in a plug width of only 1.7mm.
But I already know that fixed jaw chairs of 1.7mm plug width can be used in 3.33mm sleepers.
The sleepers are bunched together so that there is only one line to be laser cut between each pair of sleepers. This reduces the cost of laser cutting if using a bureau and maximises ply usage.

The bunching together is just to produce cost effective sleepers/timbers. Just like the ones produced for ply & rivet construction.

The turnout timbers are similarly bunched for the same reason. I have used a straight B6 turnout with timbers set to constant, as a test.
On a straight turnout Templot twists them by 4.73 degrees.
Once the .DFX is exported, I rotate each twisted timber (and its sockets) back by 4.73 degrees, then bunch all of them for the reason outlined above (cost)
Then I will get the resultant combined sheet cut so that the grain lies along the sleepers/timbers.

I am hoping that the resultant "standard" laser cut B6 constant timbers can then be used even with curved B6 constant templates, using the sockets cut in the cork trackbed to align them (as long as no turnout timber shoving has been employed).

If that fails I will finally be a convert to FDM printed trackbases, I just wanted to explore the use of laser-cut ply timbers first.

In the process I have found that Inkscape is a really good piece of open source software to explore the .DFX files that Templot exports, and is a good 2D drawing package for making etch designs etc.

Steve

 

[Phil G]

Just following up on my own message,
If we think about what the real railways did, you can say the following are key components,
Rails, Chairs, Keys, Bolts, Timbers, Ballast.

In the real world we all know the rails were extruded steel, the chairs were cast iron, the keys were originally timber and were wedged between the the rail web and the chair, to create an inference fit. The bolts are steel and chairs were cast iron. The bolts job was to hold the chair to the timber, by screwing the chair to the timber. The timbers were creosoted hardwood, and the stone ballast is packed around the timber, it is used to hold the timbers in there correct position and stop them moving under a load.

on our plug track world,
The rail is also extruded, steel or nickel silver, the chair is resin printed, (now we a have moved into loose jaws) The loose jaw does the same job as the real key.
The chair is resin cast with a bolt simulation. The bolts job in our model is done by the plug.

The timbers can be either plywood or FDM printed PLA plastic. There job is to space the rails the correct width apart by means of the plug sockets.

What we are currently not doing, and I think we should, is fully factor in what the ballast does in the real world. In some respects it has the most important job for its the ballast that really prevents everything moving to much when the train travels over it.
on traditional models the cork layer if applied at all, is mainly for sound deadening and creating a simulation of a raised track bed. It has no practical track function.

There is no reason a cork layer could not do exactly the same function as the real life ballast does. If you think about it, it is the most logical progression. The real question should be, how do we best employ cork (or possibly another material) as a strategy that makes this ballasting function happen?
Cheers
Phil.

 

[Martin Wynne]

Martin, I know your not keen on laser experiments,

@Phil G

Hi Phil,

I'm not sure why you say that. I'm all for laser experiments -- I just don't feel at present that it's something I want to get involved in myself. A laser cutter is expensive, and it needs somewhere safe to be set up with extraction fans, smoke alarms, etc. I don't see it becoming a piece of equipment which every modeller has at home, in the way that 3D printers are rapidly becoming.

For similar money you could have one of these, with a similar work area:

Which can also cut out timbers, and cut blind pockets with no risk of calling the fire brigade, and do lots of model-making jobs. For plug track you can have timbers and base all in one piece ready to screw down on the baseboard, just like an FDM base:

Each to his own as always, but for me the CNC machining option looks the more attractive. And it's possible to add a laser head if desired. If I get a dedicated laser cutter I think it would be only to find out what you are all talking about, and what tweaks I can make in Templot to help when using one. After which I can't see me having a lot of use for it.

But for the most complex pointwork bases I still prefer FDM. I know it takes hours to produce each piece, but there is something strangely reassuring about the way it just gets on with the job for hour after hour without requiring the slightest attention. You can just forget about it. And at the end it beeps, and you lift the finished part off. Finished and ready to use.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Phil G]

I'm not sure why you say that. I'm all for laser experiments -- I just don't feel at present that it's something I want to get involved in myself.

Hi Martin,
Sorry very bad choice of words it was not so much the experimenting by others I was referring too.
but you personally getting a laser to do your own experiments.

I too was very attracted to the CNC option but after some very basic experiments. I have found CNC cutting of cork to be an issue. Maybe its the type I am using, but it tends to rip at the cork bits more then cleanly cut them.
cheers
Phil

 

[Martin Wynne]

I too was very attracted to the CNC option but after some very basic experiments. I have found CNC cutting of cork to be an issue. Maybe its the type I am using, but it tends to rip at the cork bits more then cleanly cut them.

@Phil G

Hi Phil,

For milling cork you need downcut cutters, such as these:

https://www.sainsmart.com/products/genmitsu-spiral-down-cut-2-flute-carbide-milling-cutter-set

With a very fast spindle speed (to make tiny chips).

Downcut cutters are not self-clearing in blind pockets, so need a strong suction from your dust extraction to keep them running sweet. Their great advantage is that they push the work down onto the table, instead of pulling it up. Leaving a nice sharp top cut edge. Normally used only for finishing in previously roughed-out work.

But I'm puzzled why you want to mill cork? With a CNC miller you can have your timbers integral with the base panel, and only as deep as you choose. It could be as little as 0.5mm for a thin sprinkle of crushed walnut shell top ballast. For noise reduction you could lay the panels on sheet foam or flooring underlay or whatever.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Michael Woods]

Much happier now with my timber prints for my next point. I have worked my way through multiple settings on multiple slicers but now getting the best results for my Anycubic Vyper using Puraslicer. It is a slow process, this print took 8 hours. It is straight off the printer....I will rub down with a soft brass brush to remove any lose bits....

But for any Anycubic owners this may be useful.....their recomended slicer is ideamaker which is superb for many tasks and there is a good libary of settings but for my timbers I am now going to use Puraslicer.

 

[genixia]

OK, so as I understand it;
1. Elegoo Water-Washable has been reported as brittle, which ties in with their marketing specs.
2. Martin has Anycubic ABS-Like V2 (water washable) on order.
3. I have Sunlu Water-Washable on order.

To anyone else wanting to test other resins, looking at Elegoo ABS-Like (that Martin has had success with) and other ABS-Like filaments, here are some guidelines on the parameters that are important to us.
Tensile Strength. > 30MPa. Higher is better.
Flexural/Bending Strength. > 30MPa. Higher is better.
Molding Shrinkage/Body Contraction. <8%. Lower is better.
Hardness. >78D. Higher is better, but 78D is very hard to begin with.
Ductility (Elongation at break). Higher is better (less brittle).

Ductility is an interesting property. It allows for a material to deform before breaking. That is generally a good thing, especially so when you need a material to flex. It's not clear yet how much ductility is needed for the clip-fit and loose jaws to work reliably. Some standard resins in earlier chairing experiments (before clip-fit and loose jaws) were reported as brittle when threading onto rails. On paper, the Anycubic ABS-Like V2 (40%) looks much better than the Sunlu water-washable (8-14%) here.

 

[Martin Wynne]

@genixia @Paul Boyd

Hi Ian, Paul,

The Anycubic ABS-Like water-washable has arrived. I shall be trying it later today when I have found some suitable washing containers (the Mercury tubs are full of IPA).

Unlike making a toy soldier, a simple rinse in water won't be enough. The chairs need a very vigorous wash to clear all uncured resin from the pin slots and from behind the clip-fit tangs. With over 200 chairs on the build plate, going over each one in the wash with a soft brush isn't practical. If it works I shall probably end up buying more Mercury tubs for water washing. In the meantime it's likely to mean a lot of splashing about in a bucket. The contents of which then has to be left in the sun for a few days before it can be filtered and disposed of. There is no sign of the sun so far today.

I'm wondering if a water/IPA mix at about 25% IPA might make the best washing fluid. It's not inflammable (or so expensive). Maybe meths would do instead of the IPA content. There is always something more to try.

I agree that Ductility is the key property, and the one I have been comparing for different resins. It would be good to try the Nylon-Like at some stage, although it's more expensive and not available water-washable.

Martin.

 

[Bunchie3174]

Is it possible to print rafts of chairs w/keys but no plug, just a flat underside? In the immediate future I'm likely to have a resin printer at my disposal but not a laser/cnc/fdm printer.

 

[Phil O]

Hi Martin,

I have just left Scaleforum, James is doing a splendid job in promoting the 3d trackwork. I have been around for about 2 hours and he's been at it pretty much relentlessly. There has been an awful lot of positive interest in it.

I have to say that I am pretty impressed at what I have seen.

 

[Martin Wynne]

Is it possible to print rafts of chairs w/keys but no plug, just a flat underside? In the immediate future I'm likely to have a resin printer at my disposal but not a laser/cnc/fdm printer.

@Bunchie3174

Hi Ian,

Yes, you can do that. Untick this:

And you will get this:

Then in the Chitubox slicer, you can use the option to add supports under them for printing:

After snipping each one from the supports, you will need to rub the base flat on abrasive paper. That could get tedious if you have a lot to do.

Ordinary butanone won't work as a solvent (as far as I know -- anyone?), so you would need to use superglue cyano for assembly (or something else -- anyone?).

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Bunchie3174]

@Bunchie3174

Hi Ian,

Yes, you can do that. Untick this:

View attachment 6898


And you will get this:

View attachment 6899


Then in the Chitubox slicer, you can use the option to add supports under them for printing:

View attachment 6900

After snipping each one from the supports, you will need to rub the base flat on abrasive paper. That could get tedious if you have a lot to do.

Ordinary butanone won't work as a solvent (as far as I know -- anyone?), so you would need to use superglue cyano for assembly (or something else -- anyone?).

cheers,

Martin.

Thank you kindly sir

 

[genixia]

For those particular chairs, are supports even necessary? Would there be too much bed plate adhesion to remove them cleanly if they were flat on the plate?

 

[genixia]

@genixia @Paul Boyd

Hi Ian, Paul,

The Anycubic ABS-Like water-washable has arrived. I shall be trying it later today when I have found some suitable washing containers (the Mercury tubs are full of IPA).

Unlike making a toy soldier, a simple rinse in water won't be enough. The chairs need a very vigorous wash to clear all uncured resin from the pin slots and from behind the clip-fit tangs. With over 200 chairs on the build plate, going over each one in the wash with a soft brush isn't practical. If it works I shall probably end up buying more Mercury tubs for water washing. In the meantime it's likely to mean a lot of splashing about in a bucket. The contents of which then has to be left in the sun for a few days before it can be filtered and disposed of. There is no sign of the sun so far today.

I'm wondering if a water/IPA mix at about 25% IPA might make the best washing fluid. It's not inflammable (or so expensive). Maybe meths would do instead of the IPA content. There is always something more to try.

I agree that Ductility is the key property, and the one I have been comparing for different resins. It would be good to try the Nylon-Like at some stage, although it's more expensive and not available water-washable.

Martin.

An ultrasonic cleaner should make quick work of that, something that is possible with water but inadvisable with alcohols. In the meantime, put the IPA in a (sealed) bucket and test with the Mercury tub instead? Adding some IPA or another surfactant should help in quick cleaning. Can you cure with the bucket in? If so, after curing the chairs just put the tub back in and run a cure cycle before filtering. No sun needed.

Meths (denatured alcohol in US parlance) should work too. I don't know if the purple dye added in the UK could tinge the print, not that you'd likely care.

With regards to resin cost, the chairs themselves don't really use much resin. The default rafting/support parameters might be a little wasteful though. Something to think about generally, but especially if people start using more pricey resins. Something I realised last night was that we could print loose jaws in a different resin to the chairs. It might be useful to allow using stronger but possibly more brittle resin for the chairs, and something with more give for the loose jaws. I don't know if that could be useful to anyone. (Non-clip chairs perhaps?)

 

[Steve_Cornford]

Hi Genixia,
If printing on a Mars 2 Pro then yes the supports are necessary as there is compression in the first layers and it would be hard to accurately print the chair base plates.
Both Martin and myself discovered this when printing trackbases in Resin, fir example when attempting to print timbers 3.2mm thick, they come out much thinner, more so than can be accounted for by shrinkage.
When printing chairs with plugs on top of supports, the discrepancy Is absorbed in the raft and supports (I think)
I assume that is why Martin advised on adding the supports to plug less chairs.
In fact if you print a timbering brick on your resin printer then measure the depth of the timbers at each end and side of the resultant brick you will get a measure of how good your build plate levelling has been.
Steve

 

[Martin Wynne]

@genixia @Paul Boyd

Hi Ian, Paul,

The Anycubic ABS-Like water-washable has arrived. I shall be trying it later today

@Paul Boyd

I'm pleased to report 100% success with the Anycubic water-washable ABS-Like resin.

I ignored the recommended resin settings and used the exact same settings I've been using on the Mars and Alkaid printers with the Elegoo resin. The recommended settings were for Anycubic printers, and since I don't have one of those, there didn't seem much logic in sticking to them.

Printed on the Mars I can't detect much difference from the Elegoo resin in the finished chairs. The pins fit nicely in the slots, and the clip-fit tangs open and close when compressed in the digital caliper. The rafts and chairs feel equally strong to handle.

The only differences are:

1. slightly darker grey and less translucent than Elegoo. This is a good thing I think -- easier to paint and photograph. But I gave it a longer cure in the Mercury unit (18 minutes in total) to allow for being less translucent.

2. as claimed by Anycubic, there is less shrinkage than the Elegoo resin, resulting in the chairs being fractionally larger than the design size. This presents a problem in setting the default shrinkage in Templot, if folks will be using different resins. You can enter any shrinkage you like, but measuring it to enter is tricky. The shrinkage is however far less than the specs for both resins, when making chairs. It's likely more applicable if resin-printing full thick timbering.

I note on the Anycubic web site that this resin will withstand 3 years of outdoor exposure unpainted, without cracking. Which is more good news. What happens after 4 years it doesn't say. I think I would paint it anyway.

A bowl of used wash water is now outside waiting for the sun to come out.

The only bad news in all this is that I have a new unopened bottle of Elegoo resin in the cupboard.

Martin.

 

[Paul Boyd]

@Paul Boyd

I'm pleased to report 100% success with the Anycubic water-washable ABS-Like resin.

I ignored the recommended resin settings and used the exact same settings I've been using on the Mars and Alkaid printers with the Elegoo resin. The recommended settings were for Anycubic printers, and since I don't have one of those, there didn't seem much logic in sticking to them.

Printed on the Mars I can't detect much difference from the Elegoo resin in the finished chairs. The pins fit nicely in the slots, and the clip-fit tangs open and close when compressed in the digital caliper. The rafts and chairs feel equally strong to handle.

The only differences are:

1. slightly darker grey and less translucent than Elegoo. This is a good thing I think -- easier to paint and photograph. But I gave it a longer cure in the Mercury unit (18 minutes in total) to allow for being less translucent.

2. as claimed by Anycubic, there is less shrinkage than the Elegoo resin, resulting in the chairs being fractionally larger than the design size. This presents a problem in setting the default shrinkage in Templot, if folks will be using different resins. You can enter any shrinkage you like, but measuring it to enter is tricky. The shrinkage is however far less than the specs for both resins, when making chairs. It's likely more applicable if resin-printing full thick timbering.

I note on the Anycubic web site that this resin will withstand 3 years of outdoor exposure unpainted, without cracking. Which is more good news. What happens after 4 years it doesn't say. I think I would paint it anyway.

A bowl of used wash water is now outside waiting for the sun to come out.

The only bad news in all this is that I have a new unopened bottle of Elegoo resin in the cupboard.

Martin.

Hi Martin, that is indeed good news, and along with Ian’s suggestion of an ultrasonic cleaner this is making it more feasible for me to get a resin printing setup. I’d still need a UV curing thingy but I guess it only needs to cure, not wash as well - i think the cure/wash tanks are intended for gentle sloshing with solvents rather than water.

I need to have a proper look now into water-based post processing.

Cheers,
Paul

 

[Martin Wynne]

I’d still need a UV curing thingy but I guess it only needs to cure,

@Paul Boyd @James Walters

Hi Paul,

In his 3D-printing video, James uses a cheapo UV nail polish curing lamp:

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Paul Boyd]

@Paul Boyd @James Walters

Hi Paul,

In his 3D-printing video, James uses a cheapo UV nail polish curing lamp:

cheers,

Martin.

That's an interesting video - I'll watch it in full at some point.

Edit:- I got drawn in, and have just made the connection having seen the "Bexhill West" name! I'm actually intrigued by how simple the cleaning process is - would I really need another piece of kit to find space for? Probably not. I may go for something more sophisticated than a nail varnish curing thingy though, but that's a great idea! I actually have a UV light box from the days when I used to make my own circuit boards in the meantime though.

Cheers, @Martin Wynne and @James Walters

 

[Phil G]

Hi Paul,
Martin's video is indeed very good,
There are in fact several very good YouTube videos on the Mars and other resin printers,
There are however a few very important key points,
The first two are setting up the bed plate, On the Mars it has the ball and socket idea with just two screws.
As James and the instructions say, first is to set the bed using a piece of 80GSM A4 paper, as a equal spacer. when you firmly hold the build plate make sure it does not defect as you tighten the first front nut, then the side second nut.
You can check this by ensuring all four corners have equal resistance to the paper after tightening. If not its best to try again, you need this build plate to be totally flat to the glass to ideally better than .001" flat.

The next thing is to do more than just snug up the two bolts, otherwise there is a strong chance the build plate will slip when your printing as the suction on the first few layers of the lift can be quite high. This is especially true if the build plate is not evenly loaded with parts.
with Printers with 4 tightening bolts it may not need to be quite so tight,

lastly I would recommend the use of a thin silicone rubber matt under your printer. This is very useful for clean up when the invaluable the odd drip of resin coming off the printer after its finished and you taking the build plate away ends up on the matt and not your work surface.
Don't be put off printing is great fun once everything is working correctly.
cheers
Phil,

 

[Winander]

I'm pleased to report 100% success with the Anycubic water-washable ABS-Like resin.

Hello Martin,

I this the V2 resin from Anycubic? I hope so because that's what I ordered this weekend (together with some other bits and bobs).

thanks,
Richard

 

[Martin Wynne]

Hello Martin,

I this the V2 resin from Anycubic? I hope so because that's what I ordered this weekend (together with some other bits and bobs).

thanks,
Richard

@Winander

This is the stuff I'm talking about Richard:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0C7BFQZ2C

The most important point for the chairs is not the V2 or being water washable -- it is ABS-Like. So hopefully that's what you ordered?

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Paul Boyd]

Hi Paul,
Martin's video is indeed very good,
There are in fact several very good YouTube videos on the Mars and other resin printers,
There are however a few very important key points,
The first two are setting up the bed plate, On the Mars it has the ball and socket idea with just two screws.
As James and the instructions say, first is to set the bed using a piece of 80GSM A4 paper, as a equal spacer. when you firmly hold the build plate make sure it does not defect as you tighten the first front nut, then the side second nut.
You can check this by ensuring all four corners have equal resistance to the paper after tightening. If not its best to try again, you need this build plate to be totally flat to the glass to ideally better than .001" flat.

The next thing is to do more than just snug up the two bolts, otherwise there is a strong chance the build plate will slip when your printing as the suction on the first few layers of the lift can be quite high. This is especially true if the build plate is not evenly loaded with parts.
with Printers with 4 tightening bolts it may not need to be quite so tight,

lastly I would recommend the use of a thin silicone rubber matt under your printer. This is very useful for clean up when the invaluable the odd drip of resin coming off the printer after its finished and you taking the build plate away ends up on the matt and not your work surface.
Don't be put off printing is great fun once everything is working correctly.
cheers
Phil,

Thanks Phil, that's useful info. I'm actually looking at the Mars 4 9K, and a particularly important criteria on that specific printer is that a cupboard door will be able to open over the top of it! Levelling the bed sounds much the same as on my FDM printer. The silicone mat sounds like a good idea.

My concern is that only Amazon seem to have stock in the UK, and getting them to not only deliver to the right address but also tell you to which random address they've delivered to is a challenge locally!

Cheers,
Paul

 

[Michael Woods]

@Paul Boyd

I'm pleased to report 100% success with the Anycubic water-washable ABS-Like resin.

I ignored the recommended resin settings and used the exact same settings I've been using on the Mars and Alkaid printers with the Elegoo resin. The recommended settings were for Anycubic printers, and since I don't have one of those, there didn't seem much logic in sticking to them.

Printed on the Mars I can't detect much difference from the Elegoo resin in the finished chairs. The pins fit nicely in the slots, and the clip-fit tangs open and close when compressed in the digital caliper. The rafts and chairs feel equally strong to handle.

The only differences are:

1. slightly darker grey and less translucent than Elegoo. This is a good thing I think -- easier to paint and photograph. But I gave it a longer cure in the Mercury unit (18 minutes in total) to allow for being less translucent.

2. as claimed by Anycubic, there is less shrinkage than the Elegoo resin, resulting in the chairs being fractionally larger than the design size. This presents a problem in setting the default shrinkage in Templot, if folks will be using different resins. You can enter any shrinkage you like, but measuring it to enter is tricky. The shrinkage is however far less than the specs for both resins, when making chairs. It's likely more applicable if resin-printing full thick timbering.

I note on the Anycubic web site that this resin will withstand 3 years of outdoor exposure unpainted, without cracking. Which is more good news. What happens after 4 years it doesn't say. I think I would paint it anyway.

A bowl of used wash water is now outside waiting for the sun to come out.

The only bad news in all this is that I have a new unopened bottle of Elegoo resin in the cupboard.

Martin.

Thank you for this Martin. I have ordered a bottle. Being able to use the ulstrasound cleaner will be a big help.

 

[Phil G]

I'm actually looking at the Mars 4 9K

Hi Paul,
That's interesting if I am not mistaken that's one of the first affordable DLP printers on the market. Certainly Elegoo's first venture into DLP technology.
Will be interesting to see if you get any advantages over the LCD versions we are all currently using.
Of some note is the choice of Elegoo, not to go with Chitubox as the slicer, partly because there no longer wedded to the Chitubox LCD screen.
Nothing stopping you using Chitubox as your slicer though.
Also you quite right the build plate setup is very similar to any FDM in that regard.
cheers
Phil,