Experimental 3D plug track - up to version 244c

[Terry Downes]

Hi, can anyone remind me how to re-instate or lengthen the stock rail and see crossing rails on my turnout? I'm just returning to this as part of my scissor crossing and have completely forgotten how I omitted/shortened the rails.

 

[Martin Wynne]

Hi, can anyone remind me how to re-instate or lengthen the stock rail and see crossing rails on my turnout? I'm just returning to this as part of my scissor crossing and have completely forgotten how I omitted/shortened the rails.View attachment 8587

@Terry Downes

Hi Terry,

Here you go:

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Terry Downes]

Thanks Martin. Another minor query, I have laser cut my timber base and I was looking to laser etch the soleplate but, the soleplate does not appear to show on the dxf file even when I turn on the respective layer. Is this because its only exported in 3D outputs for FDM timbers?

 

[Martin Wynne]

Thanks Martin. Another minor query, I have laser cut my timber base and I was looking to laser etch the soleplate but, the soleplate does not appear to show on the dxf file even when I turn on the respective layer. Is this because its only exported in 3D outputs for FDM timbers?

@Terry Downes

Hi Terry,

Yes, the soleplate data is included only in the 3D exports. Ignored in 2D.

I wasn't aware that there is a way of doing the soleplate with a laser cutter? It means removing a thin layer of ply from around the soleplate outline to represent the lowered timber.

Currently the soleplate outline is not appearing in the reset all output, which is a bug, so I will get it fixed. Thanks for reporting it.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Terry Downes]

I’m going to add the sole plate rectangle in the 2d dxf using CAD and then etch the surrounding timber down about .1mm or so. I’ll post a photo of the results tomorrow.

 

[Martin Wynne]

I’m going to add the sole plate rectangle in the 2d dxf using CAD and then etch the surrounding timber down about .1mm or so. I’ll post a photo of the results tomorrow.

@Terry Downes

Hi Terry,

The soleplate is a steel plate. You might want to rub some filler into the ply surface to represent steel. That might be easier to do before etching the surrounding ply?

1/2" thick = 0.17mm in 4mm/ft scale.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Terry Downes]

first attempts at etching timber around sole plate is ok (3mm ply - 00-SF) but, I probably need to etch deeper as this etch is measuring 0.1mm deep and after the thinest spray of paint/sleeper grime the definition will be lost. I'll post more later once perfected.

 

[Michael Woods]

Martin - I think the answer to this question is no - but want to check. If I alter the radius of a turnout from 53 inches to 55 inches will the chairs change. Clearly I will have to reprint the timbers but want to check on the chairs.

Many thanks in advance.

 

[Steve_Cornford]

Michael,
I believe the answer is no, as long as no timber shoving has occurred.
Steve

 

[Martin Wynne]

@Michael Woods

Hi Michael,

The answer is no. All the chair sizes are calculated before any curving is applied to the template.

Likewise prototype chairs are not changed when used in curved track.

For plain track don't forget the flexi-track option which allows you to make adjustments to the radius when laying the track. Or you can just snip out some of the webs.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Michael Woods]

Martin - Thank you - I will definately be using the flexi track.....but i need to get to the end of the circle when I may need some artistic licence with flexi track to complete the loop. For some reason a rouge radius slipped in somewhere so some reprinting is going to be required. Doing too many things at once....need to just focus on the track building and tripple check everything as I go along.

Thank you too Steve.

 

[Terry Downes]

Hi Martin, I trying to establish if we still have the 'fill below key' option anywhere in the latest plug track options? I would like to print some chairs with this area filled to avoid the rail tipping over e.g keep the rail absolutely vertical. (Below post 11th Feb 2022).

 

[Martin Wynne]

Hi Martin, I trying to establish if we still have the 'fill below key' option anywhere in the latest plug track options? I would like to print some chairs with this area filled to avoid the rail tipping over e.g keep the rail absolutely vertical.

@Terry Downes

Hi Terry,

The function is still available. But it's not recommended because it prevents the loose-jaw option from working as intended -- you can't simply drop the rail into position:

(check rail chair)

Which means it makes sense only with the solid-jaw slide-on chairs.

It shouldn't be necessary. To hold the rail vertical the rail is gripped only by the key in the prototype manner, and stands upright on the rail seat. If it's not doing that you probably need to adjust the rail section or rail-fit settings.

It is also non-prototypical -- there is no such fill in prototype chairs for the same reason, to allow the rail to be dropped into place. Prototype chairs have daylight showing below the key.

Switching this function on is done in two stages:

1.

2. then tick the option:

I haven't tried or tested it for many months, so it may no longer work properly for some of the chair types.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Michael Woods]

Terry - I have found that with solid jaws each individual chair can be a little lose (I have sized my rail profile accordingly) but even on a relatively short length of track the combined effect of the individual chairs holds the rail very well....rail moving in the chairs is not something I have found to be an issue at all.....complete opposite once I put everything together it is very nice and solid.

 

[Michael Woods]

Martin - I am building the attached passing loop. On the two turnouts should I reverse the point and splice rails in the V to reflect that one of the turnouts will typically take traffic on the up and the other on the down, keeping the point rail on the direction of the traffic and the splice on the direction of the return. Or would you keep them both the same?

 

[Martin Wynne]

Martin - I am building the attached passing loop. On the two turnouts should I reverse the point and splice rails in the V to reflect that one of the turnouts will typically take traffic on the up and the other on the down, keeping the point rail on the direction of the traffic and the splice on the direction of the return. Or would you keep them both the same?

View attachment 8685

@Michael Woods

Hi Michael,

You can't simply swap the point and splice rails because the plug track crossing chairs are handed left and right (unlike the prototype). They will only accept the corresponding vee rails.

Sorry I can't tell you which way is correct because prototypes vary.

Normally signal box diagrams show the lie of the points as the lever stands Normal in the frame.

This means you have 1 right-hand turnout and 1 left-hand turnout, with correspondingly handed V-crossings. Normally the point rails will be in the main road in each case, i.e. in the upper line in the diagram, with the splice rails in the loop line, the lower line in the diagram. You will need to make matching crossing chairs for each turnout.

That's the usual arrangement. Some prototype companies do it other ways, with the point rail always for the heaviest traffic, or always for facing traffic. In order to model the latter you would need to customize the turnout on the right in the diagram with a right-hand V-crossing and left-hand switch, and make the crossing chairs accordingly.

Note that whether a crossing is called "left" or "right" hand also varies with different companies. This is just the naming, and doesn't affect the design of the rails as above. In Templot a V-crossing is called the same hand as the turnout it is part of. Looking from the nose of the vee, a left-hand V-crossing has the splice rail on the left. A right-hand V-crossing has the splice rail on the right.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Phil G]

Hi Michael,
That's a very interesting question you have posed to Martin, and as always a very thought out answer from Martin.
The only question I would have, purely for my understanding is, even in S scale is it quite obvious from your viewing angle, which way the vee rails are actually spliced?
I would have though, well in 4 mm anyway. And with my eyes, with a well spliced Vee, it's quite had to see exactly which rail is which. (especially if you solder the splice) and then view from a normal distance.
phil

 

[Michael Woods]

Hi Michael,
That's a very interesting question you have posed to Martin, and as always a very thought out answer from Martin.
The only question I would have, purely for my understanding is, even in S scale is it quite obvious from your viewing angle, which way the vee rails are actually spliced?
I would have though, well in 4 mm anyway. And with my eyes, with a well spliced Vee, it's quite had to see exactly which rail is which. (especially if you solder the splice) and then view from a normal distance.
phil

Hi Phil - What i was trying to achieve is to give my locos the smoothest possible journey through the turnout and I agree that whilst the stock / point joint can hardly be seen it is still there.

I agree Martin's answer is excellent and given me some things to think about.

(its not often I ask a sensible question so I will savour the moment )

 

[Terry Downes]

Hi Martin, I'm trying to tidy up a few areas on my scissor crossing (00-SF box file attached) and I dont seem able to extend the wing rail of my turnout e.g. when I extend the wing rail the chair does not change. Is this because Templot only expects wing rails to be so long from the crossing vee or am I doing something wrong?

 

[Martin Wynne]

Hi Martin, I'm trying to tidy up a few areas on my scissor crossing (00-SF box file attached) and I dont seem able to extend the wing rail of my turnout e.g. when I extend the wing rail the chair does not change. Is this because Templot only expects wing rails to be so long from the crossing vee or am I doing something wrong?

View attachment 8691

@Terry Downes

Hi Terry,

I'm afraid you have reached the limit of the current parallel-wing (PW) functionality in plug track. At present Templot will adjust the chairs for extended wing rails only as far as the DD chair, as you noticed. That's because parallel wing rails on the EF chair would require 3 or 4 loose jaw slots and there is no current coding to permit that. Going beyond 2 pin slots per chair will be a lot of work. It may be necessary to force a swap to snap-fit plugs instead of clip-fit plugs when more than 2 slots are needed.

A possible temporary kludge fix would be to replace EF chairs with very long AB chairs when a parallel wing is needed. I will see if such a temporary option can be provided in the next update.

Also at present there is no function for one-sided parallel wings. You get both sides MS and TS or none. That needs fixing too.

It's all quite complicated and means a lot of work still to do to get it all fully working. For example the C and D chairs on the prototype have gauge-side inside keys. These won't work with deeper than scale model wheel flanges in 00/EM etc., so I replaced them with normal gauge-side jaws, and locking pieces between the vee the rails -- but with parallel wing rails added that is no longer an issue. The prototype PW chairs differ from the check rail chairs in that the wing rails are canted at 1:20, whereas check rails are always vertical. But in plug track all rails are vertical, so in effect there will be no difference between the PW and CC chairs in plug track. But a commonly needed PW chair will be the L1PW, which would be identical to the L1CC chair, and unfortunately I haven't done that one yet.

I don't want to promise too many additional functions in the next update, otherwise it never will get released. Several folks are already waiting for some of the previous fixes, and I still have the chair heaving functions to finish.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Terry Downes]

Hi Martin, thanks for the feedback. Honestly, this is not a problem whatsoever as I'm sure I will be able to cobble something together. I just wanted to check that there wasn't already something within Templot which I was missing. Please stop apologising, and continue to enjoy your hobby. As always, I'm constantly in awe of Your knowledge and the ever growing functionality of Templot. ThankYou, keep up the good work and enjoy!

 

[Steve_Cornford]

A mention of Templot and PlugTrack on Scaleforum:-
https://www.scalefour.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=103482#p103482

Steve

 

[Michael Woods]

Another turnout built all with the exception of adding the insulated joiners. Tests runs give a nice smooth journey. Not sure if this will make it onto the layout.....it may do. I keep playing with my FDM printer settings.

The only change I made to the Templot standards (gauge widened) was the introduced a little more tollerance on the switch blade chairs. I simply printed some off with a 0.25mm thicker rail head setting, these are long turnouts and the extra tollerance helped with keeping everything smooth.

The timbers next to the turnout are for a turnout that is a mirror image of the one I have just built. I wanted to be lazy and just mirror on my slicer. But this does not work, it is close but for whatever raeson the timbers distort by about 1% in a rather random way. I have read that it is to do with the mesh orientation and that mirroring is ok for things like figures but will not always give a perfect replication.

So I just did the job properly in Templot.

 

[Martin Wynne]

A possible temporary kludge fix would be to replace EF chairs with very long AB chairs when a parallel wing is needed. I will see if such a temporary option can be provided in the next update.

@Terry Downes

Hi Terry,

I have now done that. With this menu option selected (it is on by default), lengthening the wing rails will cause all the relevant V-crossing chairs to be replaced with extended AB chairs for a parallel wing rail:

Note that this is a temporary non-prototypical kludge, but it will allow such crossings to be constructed. To return to the previous functioning, untick the above option.

The missing middle jaws between the vee rails can be added by gluing in suitable bits of jaws and keys.

At present there is no way to do one-sided parallel-wing chairs -- both ends of the chair get extended. This is not necessarily unprototypical -- unused chair jaws can sometimes be found. But not of course with keys in them, so that will be another option in the chair heaving to omit individual keys where not needed.

Will be in 244a shortly. I seem to have written that several times lately.

In due course I will revisit all this and do proper parallel-wing chairs. But it's not likely to be any time soon, too much else to do first.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Phil G]

A mention of Templot and PlugTrack on Scaleforum:-
https://www.scalefour.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=103482#p103482

Steve

Hard to say for sure, but at first glance the timbers look to have been resin printed rather than FDM all be it in a different colour.
Of course I could be wrong with that view. Either way it looks impressive.
cheers
phil

 

[Phil G]

Will be in 244a shortly

The release of 244a will be like Christmas coming all over again lots of little goodies in this one for sure.
Cheers
Phil,

 

[Terry Downes]

Can anyone remind me how to make a text label part of a brick so it prints as a label on the resin chair raft?

 

[Steve_Cornford]

Hi Terry,
I normally click on the [3D] button, and ensure I have bricklaying and the brick colour boxes ticked on the "experimental 3D" screen.

choose Shapes
then select line/brick splint/brick label tab radio button, then i also select the by entering dimensions radio button:-

then click on [add shape]
Fill out the dimensions :-

and click ok to get a new shape added called line :-

then select the modify shape tab, and tick the brick shape for 3D export and brick label tick boxes giving;_

you can see it has added your chosen brick colour, and changed the name to something starting with #.
click on the rename] button
and key in your chosed legend starting with a #, but be aware that only certain 7 segment letters are available. Use 5 instead of S for example. Here I have keyed in #C 5uuItch

You can then click on the shift button to move the text label to your desired position on the raft.
Note also on the background shapes screen you can click on the splint/slab menu and select brick label text size in order to reduce the size of the font and more readily fit it on your raft.

Anyway this is the method I use.
I favour giving the chair templates, chair rafts and text labels colours to associate the correct chairs with the correct rafts and labels.
Steve

 

[Steve_Cornford]

For completeness:-
Initial characters available:-

Wthin Templot the text characters are limited to:-
the numbers: 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9
the letters: A,C,E,F,G,H,L,P,U
the characters: minus,equals,underscore
the # character gets translated to minus
all other characters get translated to the "unknown" character which is three horizontal bars of segments (of the 7 segment display paradigm)

Martin has now added:-

c d h i n o r t u

Also full stop/decimal dot and spaces.
Also O is the same as 0, I is the same as 1, comma is the same as full stop.
Pipe ( | shift+backslash ) is the same as 1 but on the left instead of right.


Perhaps we should adopt a convention for chair raft labels?

1st segment == gauge
2th segment == chair type [-chair type]
[3rd segment == Turnout type]
[4th segment == hand (L for left, ??? A for Right??, because it looks like an R)]

The 3rd and 4th segments can be ommitted where not required.
The 4th segment is needed as certain chair types are handed in plugtrack

Examples :-
#5_P
5 for S gauge 22.45mm
P for the P slide chairs

#5_1P-5P_C10_L
5 for S gauge 22.45mm
1P-5P for the set of 1PL to 5PL and 1PR to 5PR chairs needed for a C10 switch
C10 for a C10 Switch
L for Left Handed (in Templot the 1P-5P set of chairs for a left hand switch are different to the 1P-5P set of chairs for a right hand switch)


Steve

 

[Martin Wynne]

@Terry Downes @Steve_Cornford @James Walters

Hi Terry,

p.s. As an alternative to the below, it is possible to add text to an STL in 3D Builder, using the emboss function (after mesh-fixing it).

in Templot there is no function to include background label shapes in 3D exports. There should be, but there isn't at present.

What you can do is include the brick labels in a chair raft. Brick labels are intended primarily for FDM timbering bricks. The character set is designed for FDM 7-seg printing, so it's very limited. The primary intention was originally to display only numerics for the RGB code for the brick colour as a means of ID for each brick.

Steve has explained it above, and I'm sure I explained it in a ZOOM meeting not long ago, but here it is again in a quick scruff video showing how to create a brick label. Note that when editing the text it must begin with a # character, and you need to be inventive to get round the limitations of the character set. You can have it any size at any angle or position on the raft:

https://flashbackconnect.com/Default.aspx?id=M6GIYf-GnaRxtRruR2Waaw2

N.B. The entire system of hi-jacking the background shapes for the 3D assemblers is a temporary kludge just to get something doable in the short term. It's intended to be replaced with something better -- one fine day.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Martin Wynne]

.
Bug warning:

I have found a bug in 243a and previous versions. Templot will sometimes confuse the chair jaw option settings on the control template with those for a background template.

If you have been getting confusing results when mixing loose-jaws with slotted chairs on the same raft or in the same STL file, this might be the reason.

Will be fixed in the next update 244a. Some existing BOX files may need to be reset after loading, and then re-saved.

Martin.

 

[Martin Wynne]

.
Omit chair keys

I posted this picture last year:

linked from: https://content-eu.invisioncic.com/y320084/monthly_2023_02/IHD01208.jpeg.27bf42e1ae49bfa9ff68745c64b8e9a5.jpeg

See: https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.php?threads/bullhead-lives.633/

If you want to model the stack of chaired timbers on the left, maybe as a wagon load, they would look a bit daft with keys in the chairs. Which is what happens if you use commercial injection-moulded chairs for such scenic items.

Plug track already includes an option to omit all the keys from a template:

See: https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.p...3d-printed-cnc-milled-laser-cut.229/post-6410

For 244a I have now added an option to omit keys from individual chairs:

This makes it possible to create track features such as this, where a turnout has been taken out of use but not yet renewed. The unused chairs remain in place but without keys:

For a heap of loose chairs outside a p.w. hut, or an odd chair left at the trackside, that would also require that the chair screws be removed from the chairs. The screw heads can be removed in the layer options (for the entire STL file), but not leaving through holes. So some more work on this is needed still:

In the meantime, you could drill them out.

Martin.

 

[Martin Wynne]

.
To try to keep this topic about the plug track software, I have moved some posts to the Share and show section:

https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.php?forums/share-and-show.7/

I know it's a losing battle.

Martin.

 

[Martin Wynne]

@Terry Downes

Hi Terry,

Yes, the soleplate data is included only in the 3D exports. Ignored in 2D.

I wasn't aware that there is a way of doing the soleplate with a laser cutter? It means removing a thin layer of ply from around the soleplate outline to represent the lowered timber.

Currently the soleplate outline is not appearing in the reset all output, which is a bug, so I will get it fixed. Thanks for reporting it.

View attachment 8595

cheers,

Martin.

@Terry Downes @Phil G

Hi Terry,

I have now added the soleplate outline in 2D DXF exports, if the soleplate layer is set:

I have also moved the switch drive marker to the same SOLEPLAT layer. To be edited in your CAD to whatever you want.

Will be in 244a shortly.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Terry Downes]

@Terry Downes @Phil G

Hi Terry,

I have now added the soleplate outline in 2D DXF exports, if the soleplate layer is set:

View attachment 8828
I have also moved the switch drive marker to the same SOLEPLAT layer. To be edited in your CAD to whatever you want.

Will be in 244a shortly.

cheers,

Martin.

Excellent, thanks… looking forward to trying out 244a….

 

[Phil G]

Thanks Martin,
both will be a big help
cheers
Phil

 

[Phil G]

Hi Martin,

To be honest I am also not totally clear on what your thoughts on the SC chair options are? Could they be a way to import a chair made or modified outside of the Templot structure, into Templot? Or are they more of an idea say along the lines of a dimension dialog box? That allows all the chair details to be adjusted. IE chair base, width and length, bolt options and positions, (I am presuming possible wrongly, that the chair height from timber to rail web key, and thus the rail height would be a constant value) therefore certain parts of any model chair design would be the same, irrespective of date, region. all the above assumes we are talking about bullhead rail as well.
Thanks in advance Martin.
Cheers
Phil,

 

[Martin Wynne]

To be honest I am also not totally clear on what your thoughts on the SC chair options are? Could they be a way to import a chair made or modified outside of the Templot structure, into Templot? Or are they more of an idea say along the lines of a dimension dialog box? That allows all the chair details to be adjusted. IE chair base, width and length, bolt options and positions, (I am presuming possible wrongly, that the chair height from timber to rail web key, and thus the rail height would be a constant value) therefore certain parts of any model chair design would be the same, irrespective of date, region. all the above assumes we are talking about bullhead rail as well.
Thanks in advance Martin.

@Phil G @AndyB @James Walters

Hi Phil,

I don't know how to answer this. Andy has several times suggested importing CAD-derived designs into Templot and I just don't know how to do it or where to look for ideas. I'm far from sure that I want to do it.

If you want to edit files exported from Templot in a CAD program and then 3D-print the results, that's fine. But I can't conceive of any way such CAD-created parts could be imported back into Templot. Perhaps when I have got all the code open-sourced someone will suggest a way.

When the chair heaving function is finished (i.e. not any time soon) you will be able to change the existing chair, if any, at any rail position on any timber to be an SC custom chair. Every SC chair in a template can be different.

As such you can then edit the length and width of the chair base, and the number of screws/bolts and their positions. The jaws, rail seats and keys are all re-usable DXF blocks. You will be able to select any of them from a list and place them on the SC chair base aligned to any rail. And by such means build up a custom chair.

This will all be part of the Templot chair heaving function and will not require any knowledge of CAD or any CAD import.

This is as far as I've got, and it's not all working yet:

As I keep saying, we are not there yet. There is a long way to go and I intend to spend any sunny days this summer in the great outdoors and not in front of the computer.

Here is a list showing all the available jaw and seat blocks so far, and there will be more yet. For example for slab & bracket chairs, for the half-bolted chairs, and many others. I'm sorry the TurboCAD user interface makes such a poor job of listing them, Templot will do it properly:

Those are all REA jaws so far. One fine day there will also be a list of GWR jaws, and others. Hopefully.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Phil G]

Hi Martin,

Thanks for the reply, I was in no way trying to push you here, simply trying to understand your though process.

I would very much encourage you. To only spend time on the computer working on Templot, when your comfortable and getting something out of it.

Please spend as much time, in the great outdoors. As the weather will permit.

Most of your post makes total sense to me,
There is however one comment that has left me a bit confused.

As such you can then edit the length and width of the chair base, and the number of screws/bolts and their positions. The jaws, rail seats and keys are all re-usable DXF blocks. You will be able to select any of them from a list and place them on the SC chair base aligned to any rail. And by such means build up a custom chair.

The edit values part makes sense, Its the part about "the jaws, rail seats and keys are all re-usable DXF blocks" that has me a bit lost.

Only because, and I must be missing something here, if a DXF block can be reused, does that then not imply the program inside Templot is handling and manipulating DXF blocks? if so does that then not also mean other DXF blocks could be included, if stored in the DXF library location?

My thinking here was only to find ways to help you. Not to make a cad part outside of a Templot item, but simply for other people to do the work of creating these DXF blocks.
I for one would be happy to have a crack at it. I am sure there are others as well.

So moving to the latter part of your post, would it be possible for somebody else to create the blocks required, for example the GWR Jaws, or other specific company jaws for that matter?
I guess I am asking If there is a specific DXF sequence to creating these blocks in order for you to load them into your library? and if so could you share this?

Just as a last comment, if as you say "chair heaving will not be ready any time soon". which I fully understand, why you have said that.

Maybe it does make sense to think about releasing, not 244a, but maybe 243b, which would capture all the great mods, you have made and posted on this forum since the 243a release. I understand you like to fully check for bugs before release, but again a 243b (beta if you like) would allow other people to do the work of any bug finding for you, even if we can't do bug fixing.

cheers
Phil,

 

[Martin Wynne]

Only because, and I must be missing something here, if a DXF block can be reused, does that then not imply the program inside Templot is handling and manipulating DXF blocks? if so does that then not also mean other DXF blocks could be included, if stored in the DXF library location?

@Phil G

Hi Phil,

There is no DXF library location.

When you click to export a file, the first part of the export process is for Templot to generate all the DXF blocks for each template. They are generated at the required model scale and to match the required rail section and any other settings, such as whether loose outer jaws are wanted. For the interchangeable chair jaws, the same blocks are used as many times over as the template requires.

For the non-interchangeable crossing chairs the jaws are specific to each template and are generated to match the required crossing angle, flangeway gap etc. In most cases these blocks are used once only in a template. A fresh set is needed for each template.

That's for the DXF file. For the STL file format there is no mechanism in the format for re-usable blocks. Each time a DXF block is used it is completely generated fresh in the STL at the required location and angle. That's why the STL files are much larger than the corresponding DXF.

cheers,

Martin.