Experimental 3D plug track - up to version 244c

[James Walters]

@Phil G @James Walters

Some water being muddied here.

The video is wrong. The S1 and S1J chairs are not affected by gauge widening.

The only chairs affected by gauge widening are the CCL, CC, CCR chairs -- where the flangeway gap is increased by the same amount as the widening of the gauge.

In the case of non-functional check rails (i.e. in the model, not needed for model running, purely cosmetic continuous check rails), it is a good idea to increase the flangeway by a little bit more than the gauge widening.

The actual widening of the gauge is done by modifying the track gauge, and no other chairs are affected.

Gauge widening can get quite complicated because a transition zone is needed at each end where the gauge changes progressively from normal to widened. I posted an explanation of how to do that quite recently, somewhere or other. Maybe in one of the Zoom meetings.

It would be better not to confuse beginners to Templot and plug track by mentioning gauge widening until they are more familiar with the basics.

p.s. Phil -- you tagged the wrong Martin.

cheers,

Martin.

OK, I stand corrected. Sorry Martin, I will make a note in the video description to that effect.

 

[Martin Wynne]

@Martin Wynne
A useful development for laser cutting would be the ability to view the nibs and snibs on the trackpad, and if possible adjust them for each timber possibly via the shove timbers box. I'm guessing that might be too tricky, but I mention it as food for thought.

@James Walters

Hi James,

You can view them:

Tick 2 boxes and untick 2 boxes.

Adjusting them for specific timbers is a whole new function. At present they are not even template-specific, let alone timber-specific.

I will get round to it, but don't hold your breath -- there is so much else still needed. Feeling a bit low about the whole thing today, wondering what I have let myself in for.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Phil G]

p.s. Phil -- you tagged the wrong Martin.

Sorry in my heist I just went with Martin.
cheers
Phil,

 

[Phil G]

@James Walters

Hi James,

You can view them:


View attachment 7880


Tick 2 boxes and untick 2 boxes.

Adjusting them for specific timbers is a whole new function. At present they are not even template-specific, let alone timber-specific.

I will get round to it, but don't hold your breath -- there is so much else still needed. Feeling a bit low about the whole thing today, wondering what I have let myself in for.

cheers,

Martin.

Hi Martin, did not realise you could even view the nibs and snibs. another day and another learning.
sorry your feeling a bit low today. You should not, what we have so far is so much better than anything we have ever had before.

I do fully understand where James is coming from, however if your into laser your also very likely into lightburn. which can also do exactly what James is looking for, its just a bit more long winded.
Given Templot can do so much more for trackwork then lightburn ever can. Your right to focuses on the more important aspect's of Templot. I would encourage you to focus on your priority list, and just go at your own pace there is no rush really.
cheers
Phil,

 

[Steve_Cornford]

Hi Martin,
Although it might feel like 1 step forward and 2 steps backward sometimes, it is incredibly le that you have taken us so far on this journey and given awfull lot of enjoyment to all of us on here.
So thank you, and I am hoping that you receive some positive waves from me to aid your recovery and hope you start enjoying the programming again.
Regards steve

 

[Phil O]

James,

I watched the latest video at lunchtime and I think it's great.

 

[Michael Woods]

Hi Martin,
Although it might feel like 1 step forward and 2 steps backward sometimes, it is incredibly le that you have taken us so far on this journey and given awfull lot of enjoyment to all of us on here.
So thank you, and I am hoping that you receive some positive waves from me to aid your recovery and hope you start enjoying the programming again.
Regards steve

Plug track is great - even when I am struggling this is so good I just keep perservering..it is amazing...James video is the way to increase adoption.....I am determined to build a plug track layout....baseboards have arrived so I really have no excuses now..

 

[Martin Wynne]

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(image upload for linking from RMweb):

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/17584...g-a-come-back/?do=findComment&comment=5351199

 

[Terry Downes]

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(image upload for linking from RMweb):

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/17584...g-a-come-back/?do=findComment&comment=5351199

View attachment 7884

Hi Martin, This looks excellent, I'm definitely going to have a play with this over the next day or so. This system just gets better and better.

 

[Terry Downes]

@James Walters

Hi James, another informative Video, well done. You mentioned that S1 & SJ chairs remain unchanged and could therefore be batch printed and used in all locations irrespective of turnout letter or size. Wouldn't this also be applicable to L1 and P slide chairs?

 

[Martin Wynne]

Wouldn't this also be applicable to L1 and P slide chairs?

@Terry Downes

Hi Terry,

Yes -- all chairs showing in blue:

From the next update will also include CCL-Fixed and CCR-Fixed.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Steve_Cornford]

Hi Martin,
Just used your Do > isolate V crossing

Really helpful function, thank you.

Now I Just need to add the raft.
Steve

 

[Martin Wynne]

.
Egg on face time.

Today it's 5 years to the day since I obtained my first FDM printer -- the BIBO:

And I now have a total of five assorted FDM printers.

I thought by now I would have a good idea of what I'm doing with them. But it seems every day is still a schoolday.

The best plug track results so far have been from the Neptune 2S -- but only after I modified it a lot. So I assumed copying the settings from there would give the best results on the other printers. And so it seemed for the little Kingroon printer.

But not for the Neptune 3 Plus, and I think perhaps I have been unfairly unkind about it.

I've been using a very aggressive retraction setting of 6mm at 60mm/sec. After a bit more reading, it seems that the retraction amount has to be matched to the volume of molten polymer in the nozzle. To much retraction can introduce air pockets into the nozzle, resulting in spitting and blobs on the model -- which is what I've been getting on the Neptune 3 Plus.

So I thought I would try going from one extreme to the other and see what happened with only 1mm of retraction at 25mm/sec. That's less than the diameter of the filament, and I know for sure that on the BIBO that would produce excessive stringing.

But on the Neptune 3 Plus -- bingo! I've produced the best results of any on there so far.

Which makes me wonder if I need to re-think my suggested settings for the other direct-drive printers. I need to do a lot more trial and error to be sure.

There is always more to think about in plug track.

Martin.

 

[Martin Wynne]

.
I have moved the multi settings from the wrong menu to where they should have been in the first place:

Will be in 243a.

Martin.

 

[BetweenTheTunnels]

Martin,

So I thought I would try going from one extreme to the other and see what happened with only 1mm of retraction at 25mm/sec. That's less than the diameter of the filament, and I know for sure that on the BIBO that would produce excessive stringing.

But on the Neptune 3 Plus -- bingo! I've produced the best results of any on there so far.

In case it helps you, I have just had a Elegoo Neptune 4 Pro FDM printer delivered following a Black Friday deal. In all honestly, its probably going to be a week or so before I get chance to set up up and start learning how to use it, but once I have, if there's anything you want testing I'd be happy to give it a go for you.
Richie

 

[Phil G]

Hi Martin,
just a question, is it possible with the current chair plug settings, (Clip fit) to increase the depth of the plug and the lower the tang so it starts at 1.60 mm deep? the idea being if I use 1.6 mm ply for the sleepers/timber and a 3mm cork layer below I can cut the chair socket to be a good slid fit on the chair, then cut a bigger socket hole in the cork, for assembly push the chair right the the 1.6 mm ply with it engaging on the bottom the cork would have enough clearance to accommodate the tang.
Attached is a very crude drawing and photo of both the idea for 1.6 mm and 3 mm cork cutting a socket hole right though cork is messy but certainly possible

 

[Steve_Cornford]

Hi Phil,
Yes it is possible.
Martin has provided parameters for evrything.

Try changing these one at a time & previewing the result.

The bureau I used some time ago for some test timbers advised that cork cuts cleanly.
It is used quite a lot for architectural model landscaping.

But just like there is ply and then there is laser cutting ply, I suspect that there are different grades of cork sheet, and it has to be the flat cork sheet variety.

Steve

 

[Phil G]

Hi Steve,
Yes I now about the screen you have shown, in fact the last photo is me making changes using exactly that screen, but I have not been able to find any setting that drops the tang start and end point.

Re the cork I have now doubt with an industrial machine its possible however with a low power (10w output laser) its messy. Please see the attached photo of ply and cork, but the theory looks sound.
cheers
Phil,

 

[Steve_Cornford]

Using these settings:-

I got this result just now:-

On your cork layer, try just cutting the KERFSOCK layer.
Steve

 

[Steve_Cornford]

Hi Phil,
Also I think you need to source some finer grain cork sheet and check what it is bonded with.
Steve

 

[Phil G]

Hi Steve,
Thanks I will give that a try which one of the setting forced the tang down?
re cork outline the reason the sleepers are shown is to facility alignment, that is exactly the width of the timber.
I think its the lack of power which results in a much slower feed and more burning but I openly admit I m learning as I go along here
cheers
Phil,

 

[Phil G]

Hi Steve,
I know my cork is quite course, it was only originally for track bed insulation, that said its cheap and I have a lot, 100 off 400x 300 sheets cost me 60 New Zealand dollars from Ali express.
so I think I will stick with it for now.
cheers
Phil

 

[Phil G]

Interesting learning with laser use.
one very good thing, I have found with laser cutting, is if you find you have made a mistake(especially) on a big template such as my C12 transition crossover photo attached, you can in lightburn simply redo the mistake area, as a separate piece and then just patch it in as per photo 2
cheers
Phil

 

[Steve_Cornford]

Hi Phil,
1. Click on the Extend tang depth to button, and amend this parameter from the default of 0.8mm to your desired 1.6mm.

This automatically adjusts the the first 5 parameters in the CLIP-fit plug depths window to:-

which should give you what you want.

You can then increase the first 2 parameters if you desire to get a slightly deeper plug.

I believe that these plugs would be long enough to act as locator plugs if you are using loose jaw clip fit chairs.

1. apply glue sparingly to bottom of timber.
2. Insert plugs fully into timber.
3. Insert plugged timber into cork sockets, using plugs to align.
4. Apply gentle even pressure on timber to seat firmly.

Ensure you do not get glue in either the cork sockets or the chair jaw slots!

You can of course print actual locator plugs by ticking the locator plug tick box, but make sure you switch to press-fit plugs otherwise you wont be able to remove the locator plugs!

 

[Phil G]

1. Click on the Extend tang depth to button, and amend this parameter from the default of 0.8mm to your desired 1.6mm

Thanks Steve,
I will give all that a try tomorrow, and let you know how it works out. Not on The C12 crossover but my 100 mm test pieces
cheers
Phil,

 

[Martin Wynne]

just a question, is it possible with the current chair plug settings, (Clip fit) to increase the depth of the plug and the lower the tang so it starts at 1.60 mm deep? t

@Phil G

Hi Phil.

What you want is already provided for. Just click the extend tang depth button and set the thickness of your timbers:

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Matt Smith]

@James Walters

Hi James,

You can view them:


View attachment 7880


Tick 2 boxes and untick 2 boxes.

Adjusting them for specific timbers is a whole new function. At present they are not even template-specific, let alone timber-specific.

I will get round to it, but don't hold your breath -- there is so much else still needed. Feeling a bit low about the whole thing today, wondering what I have let myself in for.

cheers,

Martin.

Martin, I'm new to Templot and plug track, I have to say its an absolutely brilliant idea. Not made any track yet, I get my FDM printer this week, but the photos I've seen of the finished article the trackwork looks amazing.

 

[Phil G]

What you want is already provided for. Just click the extend tang depth button and set the thickness of your timbers:

Hi Martin,
thanks for the screen shot. I have learnt something there for sure.
I don't know if your aware, but some of your pop up screens don't show fully on a laptop, there too big for the screen, the bottom of the chairs/pugs sockets being one of them. i had no idea the extend tang button was even there.
cheers
Phil.

 

[Martin Wynne]

I don't know if your aware, but some of your pop up screens don't show fully on a laptop, there too big for the screen, the bottom of the chairs/pugs sockets being one of them. i had no idea the extend tang button was even there.

@Phil G

Hi Phil,

Are you talking about Templot Club in your browser, or the Templot program itself?

For the program, the intention is that you resize it to fit your screen using the program size vertical slider, bottom right:

cheers,

Martin.

 

[RBTKraisee]

Martyn, I hope you continue to feel better and recover fully, and the discomfort using the computer goes away VERY soon - its good to have you back, but if you need to rest yourself, do so, your heath is definitely more important.

Catching up on the vast number of older posts, I found this one on flexi-track options: https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.php?threads/experimental-plug-track-continued.673/post-8534

Specific image from that message added below.

It occurs to me that where some of us don't have space for large sweeping curves, this zig-zag pattern of connecting the sleepers can result in a rather distorted look.

My understanding is that general sleeper spacing is usually measured along the centre-line between the tracks, so wouldn't a single connecting strip down the middle result in more realistic and consistent spacing on tighter radius flexi sections?

Cheers,

Ross.

View attachment 7387

 

[Martin Wynne]

It occurs to me that where some of us don't have space for large sweeping curves, this zig-zag pattern of connecting the sleepers can result in a rather distorted look.

@RBTKraisee

Hi Ross,

It would do if you print straight timbering base and bend it to the required radius.

But that's not the purpose of the flexi-track option.

The idea is to print it at the intended finished radius, but have the flexi-track feature as a means to make slight adjustments to the alignment if needed when laying the track.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Phil G]

Are you talking about Templot Club in your browser, or the Templot program itself?

Hi Martin,
I was talking about the Templot program I did not realise you could resize the pop ups. Another day another new Templot learning. Thank you
cheers
Phil,

 

[Phil G]

Hi Martin,
Quick question, is it possible to move a template from one box file to a new box file? I mean without having to delete everything else but the template you want, and then do a save as and rename it.
The reason is to extract a template from a track plan, so that template can itself be converted into part templates for printing purposes.
cheers
Phil

 

[Martin Wynne]

Hi Martin,
Quick question, is it possible to move a template from one box file to a new box file? I mean without having to delete everything else but the template you want, and then do a save as and rename it.
The reason is to extract a template from a track plan, so that template can itself be converted into part templates for printing purposes.
cheers
Phil

@Phil G

Hi Phil,

Click on it. Press G to make a group of 1 template. Or more if you want. Then save group.

Martin.

 

[Phil G]

@Phil G

Hi Phil,

Click on it. Press G to make a group of 1 template. Or more if you want. Then save group.

Martin.

perfect exactly what I was after
cheers
Phil

 

[Phil G]

Hi Martin,
I have just found what I think is an anomaly,
In the attached screen shot I have used the lengthen tool to shorten the turnout with a view to just getting the P chairs for printing. however because I used a bonus timber to get the sleepers to look right, I find when the bonus timber passes the peg its still visible, and will also still be there when converted to a STL file.
In order to get rid of it I find I must first omit the bonus timber before using the lengthen tool to trim to the part I am working on.
photo and box file attached.
not a major problem as long as you know you have to do that first.

cheers
Phil

 

[Martin Wynne]

@Phil G

Hi Phil,

Bonus timbers are not yet supported in plug track and will create errors. For example there will be floating chairs which will cause errors in the STL:

But you don't use an existing template to create a batch of P slide chairs. Use a new straight turnout template. Shorten and blank it to just the toe timber (the one with the soleplate). Then use the store and shift multi function:

See: https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.php?threads/more-plug-track-developments.792/post-9167

Martin.

 

[Phil G]

Hi Martin,
its not actually the standard P chairs I am after, its the switch chairs between the std P and the S1 chairs which I need to print separately with the loose jaws.
By the way I have found P chairs are better printed with a solid jaw so I separate these from the other switch chairs these days anyway.

Re the bonus timber its not an issue, as the DXF file found it, and there only S1 chairs. So no problem once I realised why I was getting floating chairs in my STL file.
cheers
Phil

 

[Phil G]

Hi Martin,
this is what I was after. ready to print now

cheers
Phil

 

[Martin Wynne]

Hi Martin,
this is what I was after. ready to print now

View attachment 7971

cheers
Phil

@Phil G

Hi Phil,

Those appear to be mix of S1 and L1 chairs?

All those are interchangeable and can be printed in bulk using the store and shift multi function.

The ones which are not interchangeable and must be printed for each specific switch are the 1P. .4P switch heel chairs:

cheers,

This all needs a detailed write up. James is working on a video.

Martin.